Enenhnta Epta - To Periodiko ths Politistikhs Prwteyoysas Teyxos 7o

F.X. Pws arxizete mia tainia; Poia einai synh8ws h aformh poy sas kanei na skef8eite mia kainoyrgia tainia;

Mp. Mp. Ka8e fora einai alliws. Den yparxei kanonas. Syxna einai giati 8elw na katalabw kalytera kati poy moy symbainei. To na kanw ena film me boh8aei poly na analysw stigmes ths zwhs moy idiaitera skoteines h akatanohtes. Ap' ayth thn apoch ka8e tainia poy ekana antiproswpeyei, kata kapoion tropo, mia fash ths zwhs moy. M' aythn thn ennoia pisteyw oti meta apo ka8e tainia yparxei ena eidos teloys, sxedon ena eidos 8anatoy, kai meta h epomenh tainia einai mia anastash. Lew oti prokeitai gia ena eidos 8anatoy me thn ennoia oti otan den gyrizw tainies ais8anomai na anhkw ston kosmo twn fytwn mallon para ston kosmo twn an8rwpwn.

O "Mikros Boydas", as poyme, antiproswpeyei thn stigmh mias megalhs anagkhs... h mallon na to pw alliws: ta teleytaia deka xronia eixa thn anagkh na paw na e3ereynhsw politismoys diaforetikoys apo ton diko moy. Prwta htan h Kina, meta h Saxara me toys ligostoys ma toso adroys katoikoys ths, poy toys synantaei kaneis araia kai poy, kai meta o politismos toy boydismoy. Eixa mia anagkh na fygw makria apo thn Italia, makria apo thn Dysh, isws me thn ceydais8hsh na brw merh opoy akomh oi topikes koyltoyres antistekontai sthn genoktonia poy synteleitai se oloklhro ton kosmo kai epomenws eixa sxedon mian anagkh na 3anabrw thn a8wothta. 3erw pws einai mia ceydais8hsh, omws ayth thn periodo me boh8hse poly na trabh3w mprosta.

H teleytaia moy tainia, wstoso, egine giati yphrxe h nostalgia gia thn Italia. Sygxronws moy eixe mpei kai h idea oti s' aythn thn h8elhmenh e3oria eixa xasei thn epafh me ton topo moy ki etsi ais8anomoyn oti den eprepe na 3ekinhsw ena 8ema p.x. gia o,ti symbainei se koinwniko epipedo sthn Italia. Ki etsi gyrisa ston topo moy, kata kapoion tropo, apo thn «porta toy kallitexnh», opws leme sto 8eatro, dhladh apo thn pisw porta.

Prospa8hsa na dw thn Toskanh me ta idia matia poy eida thn Mantzoyria h to Mpoytan, dhladh me ta matia enos omiloy 3enwn. Kata ba8os anakalyptei kaneis oti merikes fores katalhgei na blepei ton topo toy apo synh8eia. Ton koitazei xwris na ton blepei, enw anti8etws oi 3enoi blepoyn, exoyn akoma matia gia na blepoyn.

X.F. Kapoioi skefthkan pws otan analabate ekeinh thn peripeteia, telika nikhfora opws apodeix8hke, na kanete mia tainia sthn Kina, htan, kata kapoion tropo, gia na kleisete palioys logariasmoys me to kommoynistiko parel8on, poy isws na mhn htan kai toso parel8on. Dhladh, gia na prospa8hsete na breite enan kosmo, tis rizes enos kosmoy, poy sas eixe empneysei toylaxiston stis prwtes sas tainies, alla kai argotera, nomizw.

Mp. Mp. Bebaia! Htan ki ayto. Alla kyriws htan h anagkh na fygw makria apo thn Italia ths dekaetias toy '80, mia Italia poy h kamera moy den thn antexe, poy den ebriske s' aythn kamia empneysh. Eilikrina, den yphrxe periptwsh, tote, na strecw thn mhxanh moy opoydhpote kai na dw kati poy na me empneei sthn Italia. H Italia ths dekaetias toy '80 einai tromaktika dief8armenh.

F.X. Giati;

Mp. Mp. Gia mia sygkekrimenh stigmh me ena sygkekrimeno ka8estws eixe ginei mia metamorfwsh. Htan mia periodos tromerhs politikhs diaf8oras. Mazi me thn diaf8ora paei panta kai o kynismos. Kai o kynismos einai kati mprosta sto opoio egw eimai entelws aoplos. Arxizw na cellizw frastika kai cyxologika kai den 3erw pws na antidrasw. Kai gi' ayto eipa mesa moy «8a fygw makria». O Pazolini, ligo prin pe8anei, epeidh einai o teleytaios mas profhths toylaxiston gia thn Italia, ta eixe katalabei ol' ayta kai miloyse gi' aytes tis mikres topikes koyltoyres sthn Italia, eseis thn gnwrizete thn Italia. Ftanei na metakinh8eis trianta xiliometra kai allazoyn oi dialektoi, allazei o tropos toy faghtoy, ta laika tragoydia, kai synantaei kaneis anari8mhtes koyltoyres poy typika synyparxoyn apo thn enwsh ths Italias to 1861, kai poy sthn pragmatikothta den epacan na einai o megalos ploytos ths patridas mas. E, loipon, edw kai kamia eikosaria xronia parakoloy8hsame pws katapnighkan oi koyltoyres aytes...

Etsi, loipon, h8ela na fygw oso to dynaton pio makria. H Kina moy fainotan arketa makria, an kai to '68 legame «H Kina einai konta» (1). Yphrxe enas megalos erwtas me keinh thn xwra. Skeftomoyn, poswn xronwn einai o Poy Gi, o teleytaios aytokratoras: o Poy Gi einai tessarwn xiliadwn xronwn, giati oi Kinezoi einai tessarwn xiliadwn xronwn.

Den brhka to koyragio na epistrecw sthn Kina apo thn epoxh toy «Teleytaioy Aytokratora» giati ayto poy synebh ta teleytaia pente h e3i xronia pisteyw pws einai mia katanalwtikh ekrh3h poy den 3erw pws 8a mporoysa na thn ante3w, akribws epeidh eixa ayton ton erwta gia thn Kina.

F.X. Sthn Italia poy epistrefete shmera ti exei alla3ei;

Mp. Mp. Apo tote, ekeinh h diaf8ora poy sas elega, 3eskepasthke, kai yparxei h ais8hsh oti kati allazei. An kai den einai eykolo. Yparxoyn nea proswpa -kai ta proswpa kati shmainoyn-, legontai kainoyrgia pragmata kai yparxei elpida. Den 3erw poso 8a einai efikto, parolo oti h 8elhsh yparxei, na mporesei h katastash na alla3ei. Omws egw blepw oti, an kai synexizoyme na poreyomaste opws se ena skoteino dwmatio, dixws na mporoyme akoma na syneidhtopoihsoyme pws prepei na kinh8oyme, ta problhmata poy mpainoyn panw sto trapezi periexoyn mia eilikrineia. Yparxei mia ais8hsh eilikrineias ayth thn stigmh. Ayto einai hdh poly.

(Fwnh toy manatzer: Teleytaia erwthsh!)

Mp. Mp. Oxi, oxi. Akoma ligo giati diaskedazw egw perissotero apo ayton. Eyxaristw.

F.X. Eyxaristw. Ti shmainei h epanastash tis dekaetias toy '60 kai toy '70 kai ti shmainei shmera, thn dekaetia toy '90; Yparxei ena diaforetiko periexomeno;

Mp. Mp. Shmera h le3h «epanastash» einai mia le3h poly aphrxaiwmenh. Thn dekaetia toy '60, htan mia le3h isws yperbolika kataxrasmenh, mia le3h poy aforoyse sta panta. 3ekinoyse apo mia anagkh gia politikh allagh alla sthn pragmatikothta aforoyse se olh thn zwh.

Thn dekaetia toy '60 8elame na t' alla3oyme ola, 8elame na alla3oyme ton kinhmatografo, thn moysikh, tis an8rwpines sxeseis, thn moda, ton tropo poy blepame ta pragmata. Gia opoion ekane kinhmatografo thn dekaetia toy '60 ta xronia ekeina htan tromera exciting, htan ere8istika. Htan tote poy epanastathsame gia ta panta, kai yphrxe mia anagkh stoys neoys na asebhsoyn, mia anagkh poy meta dioxeteyotan sta kanalia ths de3ias h ths aristeras. Alla yphrxe mia megalh anagkh na asebhseis, kai gi´ayto stis sxeseis me tis pio megales, tis pio gerasmenes, tis pio enhlikes genies, yphrxe mia sta8era sygkroyshs. Shmera, ayto poy den katalabainw, kai poy me entypwsiazei stoys shmerinoys neoys, einai poy den yparxei h anagkh ths asebeias. Ki etsi den yparxei pia pneyma sygkroyshs me tis genies twn enhlikwn. Egw, anti8eta, blepw pws yparxei mia symfiliwsh, sxedon mia 8elhsh na synennoh8ei o enas me ton allo, na katalabei o enas ton allo. Gi' ayto sto «Klemmenh Omorfia» (2), opoy yphrxan thneitzers kai enhlikes, moy hr8e fysikh ayth h prospa8eia allhlokatanohshs. Pantws egw anarwtiemai, h asebeia, to pneyma ths asebeias, egw pisteya pws htan ena stoixeio sxedon ormoniko. Ma ti synebh stis ormones twn shmerinwn newn, (gelaei), twn thneitzers; Anarwtiemai...

Kapoia stigmh moy hr8e h epi8ymia na kanw mia tainia gia to '68 alla oxi «the way we were», «pws hmastan to '68». Mia tainia gia to '68 idwmeno apo thn pleyra twn shmerinwn newn: pws antidroyn, h mallon pws 8a antidroysan oi shmerinoi neoi mprosta stoys neoys toy '68 poy sthn pragmatikothta den einai alloi apo toys goneis toys; Pws 8a antidroysan mprosta sthn afeleia ekeinhs ths epi8ymias na alla3oyn ta panta, shmera poy sthn pragmatikothta oi neoi exoyn genika enan stoxo poly praktiko: 8eloyn na katalaboyn ti 8' apoginoyn otan 8a megalwsoyn, ti lefta 8a kerdizoyn, einai poly praktikoi oi shmerinoi neoi. Etsi loipon, pws 8a toys fainomaste, pws 8a mporoysame na toys fainomaste emeis me ton tropo poy eimastan to '68; Pws 8a mas ekrinan oi shmerinoi neoi an mia mhxanh toy xronoy toys epairne kai toys metefere sto '68; Htan mia idea gia mia tainia, alla exw polles idees gia tainies, kai ayth thn stigmh den mporw na apofasisw se poia na ependysw.

F.X. Briskete pws shmera oi neoi pisteyoyn perissotero ston 8eo, as poyme, ap' o,ti tote, thn dekaetia toy '60; Akomh, ti shmaine 8eos tote kai ti shmainei shmera;

Mp. Mp. Den 8a to elega, giati to na pisteyei kaneis kai stis politikes a3ies, opws h epanastash ki ol' ayta, einai hdh enas tropos na pisteyeis ston 8eo, dhladh pisth shmainei panta dynamei pisth ston 8eo h se o,ti onomazete 8eo.

F. X. Eipate sthn x8esinh synentey3h typoy oti me ton «Konformista» arxisate na dexeste thn idea ths diaskedashs sto sinema. Ti kanei mia tainia na einai ena politismiko proion gia toys myhmenoys cinephiles h ena proion apey8ynomeno se ena platytero koino; Se ti synistatai h diafora;

Mp. Mp. Thn dekaetia toy '60, akribws th stigmh poy egine h megalh metamorfwsh toy kinhmatografoy, h megalh epanastash ston kinhmatografo, emeis, poly neoi kai poly e3tremistes, taytizame thn emporikh h laikh epityxia mias tainias me ton symbibasmo, me to 3epoylhma ths cyxhs mas ston kapitalismo.

8ymamai, me ton Glauber Rocha, ton megalo ekeino braziliano skhno8eth, apokaloysame tis tainies mas «mioyra». «Mioyra», stis tayromaxies ths Ispanias, einai oi tayroi ekeinoi poy exoyn poly sklhro kormi, oi pio dyskoloi gia ton matantor. Einai toso sklhroi wste oxi mono einai fobera dyskolo na toys mph3ei o matantor thn spa8a, alla epipleon, oyte myga, legame emeis, den mporei na toys mpei ston pisino. Synantiomastan, loipon, syxna, giati o Glauber emene syxna sthn Italia, kai elega egw «Ekana ki allo mioyra!», «Ekanes mioyra;», «Nai, ekana ena mioyra! eixa mono 25 8eates!». Htan tainies toso kleistes poy kanenas 8eaths den mporoyse na paei na tis dei. Kayxiomastan gi' ayto.

Sthn pragmatikothta, meta, kata ta telh ths dekaetias toy '60, otan den mporoysa allo pia s' ayton ton dromo, katalaba oti eprepe na alla3w dromo, na perasw apo ton monologo poy yphrxe stis tainies mas -kai yphrxe anagkh gia ekeinh thn epanastash oi neoi na kanoyn tainies poy na einai krayges, oyrliaxta, monologoi-, ston dialogo, na mporw na exw enan synomilhth. Anti na milaw mprosta se enan ka8refth, na milaw mprosta se ena koino poy einai ki ayto enas ka8refths, giati to koino soy stelnei ena shma.

Ayto htan poly shmantiko gia mena, ki etsi th stigmh ekeinh mporoysa na malakwsw, na ginw ligotero dyskamptos, ligotero stiff, kai mporoysa na dex8w thn idea oti sto gyrisma ebriska mia megalh eyxaristhsh kai oti ayth thn eyxaristhsh mporoysa na thn metadwsw stoys alloys.

Pragmati, egw pisteyw oti o dikos moy kinhmatografos arxise kyriws apo ekeinh thn epoxh, kata kapoion tropo, na apokta enan ais8hsiasmo sto styl, sthn ekfrash, h arxise na ekfrazei enan ais8hsiasmo. Thn dekaetia toy '60, akomh kai h le3h eyxaristhsh htan mia le3h ths de3ias. Eimastan toso -as to paradextoyme!- tyflwmenoi (einai yperoxo na eisai tyflwmenos) h eixame tetoies parwpides!

Ki etsi otan egw blepw mia tainia kai thn agaphsw, ayto me kanei na dokimazw mia sfodrh epi8ymia na synexisw na kanw kinhmatografo. Ayto einai poly shmantiko giati thn epi8ymia na kanw tainies moy thn dinoyn poly oi tainies poy blepw.

Shmera, dystyxws, einai liges oi tainies poy mporoyn na agaph8oyn, den einai polles. To noiw8w pws yparxei mia stigmh poy kapoioi mporei na poyn «o kinhmatografos teleiwse». Egw skeftomai «oxi, isws den teleiwse, alla gi' akomh mia fora allazei, brisketai se mia megalh diadikasia allaghs». Pisteyw pws polloi 8a meinoyn kleismenoi ap' e3w giati prokeitai gia mia allagh poly biaih, mia allagh rizikh. Ta ais8anomai etsi, me kapoia asafeia, ayta ta feelings. Alla pisteyw pws den kanw la8os.

Telospantwn, shmera moy einai poly dyskolo na pw «oxi, 8elw na synexisw opws sto parel8on». Egw pisteyw oti o kinhmatografos brisketai mprosta se mia pragmatikothta. Akribws logw ths biologias toy o kinhmatografos trefetai me pragmatikothta, trwei thn pragmatikothta. O kinhmatografos trabaei me thn mhxanh lhcews thn pragmatikothta, kai einai akribws ayth h pragmatikothta poy ekfrazetai mesa apo ton kinhmatografo.

Shmera, bebaia, h pragmatikothta ekfrazetai ligotero mesa apo ton kinhmatografo kai perissotero mesa apo thn hlektronikh. Poios 3erei. Ayto einai kati poy to noiw8w, isws kanw la8os. Pantws 8a ta 3anapoyme se merika xronia.

F.X Pisteyete oti oi nees texnologies 8a alla3oyn thn sxesh anamesa sto koino kai sthn paradosiakh ai8oysa, thn paradosiakh o8onh;

Mp. Mp. Na, akribws ayto einai poy moy leipei perissotero: h ai8oysa, ayto to eidos ekklhsias poy einai h ai8oysa, ayto to eidos ka8edrikoy naoy poy htan oi megales ai8oyses me tis terasties o8ones.

Yparxei ena mikro anekdoto poy mporw na sas dihgh8w: Thn dekaetia toy '60 kapoios phre thlefwno ton megalo Entoyarnto nte Filipo: «Empros». «Empros!», toy leei ki allos, «edw thleorash». Ki aytos toy apantaei: «Ena lepto, na sas dwsw to cygeio» (gelaei). H thleorash einai mia akomh hlektrikh oikiakh syskeyh.

Isws o kinhmatografos pernaei ki aytos mia stigmh kenoy, opws oi ekklhsies poy exoyn ki aytes sxetika adeiasei. Mono poy oi ekklhsies einai omorfes akoma kai adeies, oi kinhmatografoi adeioi den einai omorfoi.

F.X. Sas eyxaristw.

Mp. Mp. Egw sas eyxaristw.

Shmeiwseis

1. Anafora sthn tainia toy Marco Bellocchio «la Cina e´ vicina».

2. H tainia toy Bernardo Bertolucci poy problh8hke se prwth probolh sto fetino festibal kinhmatografoy.

Epistrofh sthn prohgoymenh selida..

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