Simitis - Evert debate (96-09-13) (Part 2)

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From: Macedonian Press Agency <mpa@philippos.mpa.gr>

THLEOPTIKH MONOMAXIA

Erwthsh: Ekleghkate prwqypoyrgos kai amesws meta taxqhkate yper twn kaqarwn lysewn kai ekleghkate proedros sto synedrio toy kommatos. Sth synexeia zhthsate ta lymena xeria kai phgate se ekloges.
Sas rwthsan sth Qessalonikh ti qa kanete an xasete tis ekloges kai epikalesthkate tis katastatikes diatajeis alla eipate oti analambanete tis eyqynes sas. Qa hqela na rwthsw ti qa prajete k.proedre sthn periptwsh ayth;

Kwstas Shmiths: To synedrio toy PASOK me ejeleje proedro toy PASOK gia 3 xronia. Opws kai se alles fores qa analabw panta'tis eyqynes tis opoies prepei na analabw. Kai ayto qa prajw meta tis ekloges.

ERWTHSH 14.

Erwthsh: Ti qa kanete proedre se periptwsh poy xasete tis ekloges. Qa paraithqeite h qa parameinete h qa qesete eayton sth diaqesh toy eklektorikoy swmatos ths Neas Dhmokratias:

Miltiadhs Ebert: Jerete poia einai h diafora mas me ton k.Shmith; Egw den exw amfibolies, exw aytopepoiqhsh. Kai na sas pw oti otan o Pyrros Dhmas shkwnei ta barh kai paei na parei xryso metallio den skeftetai ti qa ginei an tis xasei tis ekloges paei gia na tis kerdisei. To idio kai o Iakwboy otan ftiaxnei thn omada toy kai paei stoys Olympiakoys Agwnes den skeftetai pws qa erqei deyteros h tritos paei gia na kerdisei kai shkwnei ta barh. Emeis loipon ayth thn stigmh qa shkwsoyme to baros ths eyqynhs. Qa tis kerdisoyme tis ekloges. Ayth einai h apanthsh. Qa hqela na gyrisw pisw. Eipe o k.Shmiths oti palia htan loxoi ta ypoyrgika symboylia. Kai ton rwtw. Aytos ti baqmo eixe sto loxo toy ypoyrgikoy symboylioy toy PASOK. Deyteron. Epetaja me elikoptero panw apo ta Imia. Ekeinos epetaje me elikoptero panw apo ta Imia; To problhma einai poy eqesa eyqews kai den phra apanthsh. Mporei o ellhnikos stratos ayth th stigmh na paei sta Imia kai na egkatastaqei. H eyrisketai ayth h ypoqesh se mia gkriza perioxh opws lene oi Toyrkoi. Kai ayto pleon isxyei gia 100 braxonhsides opws diekdikoyn oi Toyrkoi. Einai ellhnikes oi braxonhsides alla tis zhtane oi Toyrkoi.

ERWTHSH 15.

Erwthsh: Kyrie proedre gnwrizete tis epikriseis gia to logo me ton opoio xeirizeste thn ellhnikh glwssa. To niwqete oti einai etsi. Aisqaneste oti sas leipei kapoia paideia;

Miltiadhs Ebert: Apo olh thn politikh moy stadiodromia ton teleytaio kairo exei anadeixqei oti gnwrizw ligo thn ellhnikh glwssa. Egw den qa pw'an thn gnwrizw poly h ligo qa sas pw toses fores poy exoyme synanthqei sthn thleorash me oloys sas kai shmera poy kanoyme syzhthseis se oles tis diadikasies poy exoyme akoloyqhsei mexri shmera exete diapistwsei meionekthmata sth glwssa poy xrhsimopoiw; Ton politiko prepei na ton krinetai apo thn apofasistikothta toy apo ton tropo poy mporei na dei mprosta toy kai apo to poso katallhla morfwmenos einai sta antikeimena ta opoia prokeitai na diaxeiristei. Krinete kai baqmologhste eseis o idios poy me jerete kai poly kala.

ERWTHSH 16.

Erwthsh: Kyrie proedre exei eipwqei oti exete mia dyskolia epikoinwnias me to meso Ellhna. To niwqete oti einai etsi;

Kwstas Shmiths: Ws melos toy ektelestikoy grafeioy toy PASOK exw gyrisei olh thn Ellada. Exw episkeftei xwria apo th Gaydo mexri thn Orestiada kai apo to Pwgwni mexri ta Dwdekanhsa. Panta eixa mia para poly kalh epikoinwnia. Ekeino to opoio yposthrizoyn merikoi einai oti o kosmos qelei na akoyei synqhmata, syntomes proeklogikes omilies me yposxeseis opoy ta problhmata ypobaqmizontai, den qelei analyseis, den qelei skech, den qelei epixeirhmata. Egw exw diapistwsei pws h omilia ekeinh h opoia exei epixeirhmata kai paroysiazei ena programma kai deixnei kai syneidhseis einai mia omilia apodekth. Den aisqanomai kamia apostash apo to meso Ellhna kai den pisteyw oti oloi aytoi oi opoioi me synanthsan aisqanqhkan apostash apo mena. Dioti an aisqanontan apostash tote pws sto PASOK poy einai ena komma ergazomenwn agrotwn mikromesaiwn, ena komma anqrwpwn toy moxqoy me chfisan ws proedro; Me chfisan ws proedro giati eidan oti o tropos me ton opoio xeirizomai egw me toys synergates moy, xeirizetai to reyma skechs to opoio ekproswpoyme einai enas tropos o opoios einai katanohtos kai dinei lysh sta problhmata toys.

ERWTHSH 17.

Erwthsh: Ton Ioynio mprosta se 5000 synedroys toy PASOK prin apo thn eklogh eipate kaqara qa paraithqw apo prwqypoyrgos; Edw twra mprosta se 7.000.000 chfoforwn giati den lete to idio; An den me eklejete prwqypoyrgo qa paraithqw apo proedros;

Kwstas Shmiths: Einai aytonohto oti efoson exw eklegei proedros toy PASOK efoson exw analabei eyqynes sto synedrio toy PASOK h opoia apofash moy prepei na einai apofash poy qa syzhthqei me ta organa toy kinhmatos. Dioti den exw kanena distagmo na analabw tis eyqynes moy opws prepei. Alla den mporw na pairnw kai monos moy apofaseis dioti den eimai proedros toy PASOK dioti etsi to qelw h einai o rolos poy qelw na paijw. Eimai proedros toy PASOK giati ekfrazw to kinhma giati yparxoyn organa me ta opoia synergazomai giati yparxoyn kateyqynseis poy prepei na pragmatopoihsw. H apofash moy qa einai panta mia apofash h opoia qa proelqei meta apo syzhthsh me toys synergates moy me toys syntrofoys moy me ta organa toy kinhmatos. Kai se ayth th diadikasia qa analabw tis eyqynes moy.

ERWTHSH 18.

Erwthsh: Exete dhlwsei se prohgoymenh synenteyjh sas pws arxhgos poy xanei se ekloges einai ypoxrewmenos na paraiteitai kai anarwtiemai giati den to janalete twra prin apo aytes tis ekloges; Epeidh tote htan arxhgos kapoios allos.

Miltiadhs Ebert: Sas epanalambanw se ypoqetikes erwthseis den apantoyn oi politikoi kai den apanta kanenas. Einai prwtognwrh ayth h erwthsh. Ayto to exete akoysei se kanena meros toy kosmoy thn wra toy proeklogikoy agwna na erxontai na lene ti qa kanete an xasete tis ekloges; Ma den qa tis xasoyme. Ayth einai h apanthsh.

ERWTHSH 19.

Erwthsh: Apeyqyneste stis mesaies tajeis epeidh noiazeste h poly apla einai mia proeklogikh taktikh h opoia qelei na isofarisei tis apwleies sas pros to syneto kai eksygxronisth Shmith. Mhpws oi energeies sas einai kinhseis proeklogikhs taktikhs poy qa metatrecoyn thn ND se komma twn mh pronomioyxwn Ellhnwn;

Miltiadhs Ebert: Oi qeseis oi opoies exoyme parei einai diatypwmenes sto programma mas edw kai enamish xrono. Exoyme kataqesei efta protaseis nomoy panw se ayta ta qemata. Apeyqynomaste stis kathgories aytes twn Ellhnwn dioti o agrotikos kosmos brisketai se ena adiejodo. An synexistei h tash qa exoyme 250.000 anergoys agrotes sto telos toy aiwna. Deyteron sto xwro twn mikromesaiwn epixeirhsewn ergazetai 70% toy ergatikoy paragwgikoy dynamikoy ths xwras ws ypallhloi. An qeloyme na stamathsoyme thn anergia prepei na koitajoyme toys kyrioys tomeis. Alimono an xaqei o Ellhnas apo thn ypaiqro kai alimono an kleisei mikromesaia epixeirhsh kai prepei na jerete oti aytes oi yposxeseis poy eipame desmeyseis poy eipame ws pros toys agrotes, exei symfwnhsei gia to kostos kai to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn, gia ta agrotika. H diafora mas einai 185 dis gia to programma ependysewn kai eipame oti ayta ta phran apo toys agrotes me to programma sygklisews kai ta edwsan sth biomhxania. H biomhxania exei 4% aporrofhsh. Mporoyn na janagyrisoyn ston tomea ths gewrgias. Ekei poy diafwnoyme einai ta antikeimenika krithria, alla kai h kybernhsh erxetai ekei kai leei na ta katarghsei meta apo tria xronia. Anagnwrizei thn adikia, alla den ta katargei amesws. Ayth einai h pragmatikothta.

ERWTHSH 20.

Erwthsh: O arxhgos ths ajiwmatikhs Antipoliteyshs sas xarakthrise eite to qelete, eite den to qelete ''neofileleyqero''. To KKE, h k.Paparhga exei pei: Ta kommata einai 6, oi politikes einai 2, mia aristerh mia dejia. Qelw na sas rwthsw, o k.Ebert kai h k.Paparhga exoyn dikio; Mhpws telika to neo PASOK toy K.Shmith apeyqynetai na carecei chfoys sto xwro ths synthrhtikhs paratajhs, opws akribws ekane to PASOK toy A.Papandreoy sto xwro ths aristerhs paratajhs;

Kwstas Shmiths: Basikh arxh toy PASOK einai oti h oikonomikh anaptyjh prepei na symporeyetai me thn koinwnikh dikaiosynh, thn koinwnikh eyaisqhsia kai otan pragmatopoioyme thn anaptyjh prepei taytoxrona na ergazomaste gia ena koinwniko kratos. Ayto shmainei oti h prospaqeia mas prepei na phgainei pros dyo kateyqynseis. Apo th mia meria na allazoyme ton tropo leitoyrgias ths oikonomias, na kanoyme pio apotelesmatikh epixeirhsh opoia ki an einai. Apo thn allh meria prepei taytoxrona na beltiwnoyme tis yphresies tis opoies parexei to koinwniko kratos. Kai gi'ayto twra sto programma ths kybernhshs, kai gi'ayto einai kai programma to opoio paroysiasame stis ekloges, ena basiko stoixeio einai orismena metra poy aforoyn th qesh toy agroth, th qesh toy ergazomenoy. Emeis exoyme pei oti qa dhmioyrghsoyme amesws meta tis ekloges ena tameio Kyrias Asfalishs toy Agroth. Na exei o agroths thn idia asfalish poy exei o ergazomenos sto IKA h o emporos sto TEBE. Na mhn ejartatai apo diafores proeklogikes paroxes, to 10xiliaro, to 5 xiliaro alla na mporei na pairnei th syntajh toy apo to Tameio toy. Opws exoyme pei, oson afora stoys ergazomenoys, qa efarmosoyme thn karta ergasias kai qa efarmosoyme energhtikes politikes apasxolhshs. H ND milaei monaxa gia periorismo ths anergias me ependyseis. De milaei kaqoloy gia energhtikes politikes apasxolhshs. Emeis tetoies politikes exoyme problecei se ena nomo, o opoios isxyei kai qa arxisoyme na tis efarmosoyme amesws meta. Kai ston tomea ths Ygeias exoyme kanei ena shmantiko bhma, se kaqe perifereia twra xtizetai, yparxei megalo nosokomeio, an pate sta Xania h an pate sthn Alejandroypolh qa deite megaqhria ta opoia xtizontai. Loipon. Kai koinwnikh politikh kai anaptyjh einai to synqhma mas.

ERWTHSH 21.

Erwthsh: Ston agwna dromoy gia thn Eyrwpaikh Enopoihsh poio einai to orio poy qa qeqate eseis ws kybernhths wste oi qysies otan einai dysbastaxtes gia to lao, na peite ftanei pia. De qa exoyme alles qysies
Kai yposhmeiwsh toy erwthmatos: eida proxqes sthn thleorash thn perysinh aristoyxo foithtria ths Maqhmatikhs Sxolhs na leei oti epeidh den yparxxoyn qeseis qa prepei na paei se allh qesh kai ekane aithsh na einai ypajiwmatikos ths ELAS.

Kwstas Shmiths: Yparxei ena programma sygklishs kai ayto to programma sygklishs efarmozetai apo thn kybernhsh. Qelw na qymisw oti kai h ND eixe symfwnhsei ena programma sygklishs me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai ton prwto xrono efarmoghs toy apetyxe sto na pragmatopoihsei toys stoxoys, toys opoioys eixe qesei. Kai gi'ayto otan hrqe to PASOK sthn kybernhsh anagkasthke na epanadiapragmateyteito programma sygklishs me thn EE kai twra efarmozetai opws akribws exoyme problecei. Loipon qa synexisoyme ayth thn prospaqeia kai elpizoyme oti qa kataferoyme ayth thn prospaqeia kai qa mporesoyme na akoloyqhsoyme tis eyrwpaikes ejelijeis. Sthn EE ayth th stigmh einai se ejelijh mia syzhthsh, an kai pws qa pragmatopoihqei h oikonomikh kai nomismatikh Enwsh. Mhpwsqa prepei na yparjei mia paratash xronoy, mhpws prepei na yparjoyn prosqetoi stoxoi, mhpws prepei na anaqewrhsoyme orismena krithria ta opoai exoyn teqei. Emeiseimaste ths apochs oti h Ellada , h opoia exei kaqe symferon na parakoloyqhsei kai na symmetasxei se ayth th syzhthsh den prepei na einai apo tis xwres ekeines, oi oopoies qa qesei prwta ta erwthmata. Dioti etsi qa dhmioyrghqoyn isws amfibolies gia th dynatothta mas kai thn apofasistikothta mas na petyxoyme toys stoxoys. Qeloyme na deijoyme kai qa eimaste apofasistikoi kai sthn poreia twn pragmatwn qa doyme to pws ejelissetai h syzhthsh anamesa stis alles xwres kai qa symmetasxoyme. Oson afora to qema ths foithtrias poy anaferate, pisteyw, h foithtria ayth an einai aristoyxos pragmati, exei perissoteres dynatothtes kai ayto akribws prospaqoyme na kanoyme. Eemeis exoyme problecei oti me thn ayjhsh toy AEP, h opoia pragmatopoieitai me to programma to diko mas qa yparjoyn 330.000 nees qeseis ergasias mesa sta 4 epomena xronia.

ERWTHSH 22.

Erwthsh: Kyrie Proedre na erqoyme ston agwna dromoy gia thn Eyrwpaikh Enopoihsh. Kyrie Proedre, poio einai to orio poy eseis ws kybernhths qa peite "ftanei pia, ftanoyn oi qysies toy ellhnikoy laoy, arketa ypefere me thn litothta";

Miltiadhs Ebert: An jekinhsoyme apo to 1981, poy entaxqhkame sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Mexri shmera exoyn perasei 15 xronia. Oi ryqmoi ayjhsews toy Eqnikoy mas Eisodhmatos ypoloiponto kata poly apo toys ryqmoys ayjhsews toy eisodhmatos twn Eyrwpaiwn, me synepeia anti na sygklinoyme na apoklinoyme. Oi ryqmoi htan katw toy 2,2%, poy shmainei ayjhsh ths anergias. Gi' ayto apo 24% h anergia exei ftasei twra na einai sto 10% kai me toys ryqmoys sygklishs poy problepei ths kybernhsews qa ftasoyme me maqhmatikh akribeia sto 15%. Dioti kai edw problepontai ryqmoi katw toy 3%. H apanthsh einai anaptyjh me ryqmoys 4%, mesw twn idiwtikwn kai twn dhmosiwn ependysewn.Gia na deite poso pragmatopoihsimo einai ayto to pragma. Mono ean eixan aporrofhqei oi poroi toy B' Paketoy Ntelor, twra 1.600 dis ta opoia kaqysterhsan, qa eixame sthn pragmatikothta mia ayjhsh ethsia ths tajews toy 2%. Xrwstagame to 35% toy A.E.P. ws daneismo kai ftasame shmera na xrwstame to 120%, para to gegonos oti eisprajame 35 dis apo thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Den mporei na synexistei ayth h katastash kai epideixqei oti h litothta toy k. Shmith, oi epaneilhmmenes litothtes olwn mas, to problhma den einai Nea Dhmokratia h PASOK. Ton ellhniko lao den ton endiaferei ayto. Den odhgei se kamia diejodo. H monh diejodos einai h anaptyjh kai gi' ayto epemena edw kai para polla xronia. Htan enas apo toys logoys moy, toys opoioys se orismenes periptwseis diafwnhsa kai me ton k. Mhtsotakh. Anaptyjh, anaptyjh, mesw twn ependysewn h apanthsh. Oson de afora to programma to agrotiko sas plhroforw oti apo 40.000 drx. gia tis syntajeis qa plhrwsoyme to programma toy k. Shmith 80.000 drx. twra oi agrotes. Giati exei kykloforhsei to sxedio nomoy.

ERWTHSH 23.

Erwthsh: Qa prepei na qesoyme k. Proedre ta erwthmata poy aforoyn ton meso anqrwpo. O mesos anqrwpos, qa to 'xete dei kai seis stis dhmoskophseis dyspistei akoma kai twra sthn proeklogikh periodo. Fobatai oti alla toy lete kai alla qa kanete. Gia paradeigma akoyei ton k. Mhtsotakh na leei "qa parqoyn sklhra, epwdyna, apofasistika metra. Qa yparjoyn apolyseis". Kai den akoyei kanena apo ayta ta sklhra kai epwdyna metra na sygkekrimenopoieitai proeklogika. Antiqetws akoyei metra ta opoia qa kanoyn tis 30 toylaxiston meres ths zwhs mas kalyteres. Pote loipon qa ta akoysoyme ayta ta sklhra kai epwdyna metra; Giati na mhn ta akoysoyme prin tis ekloges kai na ta akoyme panta meta tis ekloges;

Miltiadhs Ebert: Den lew cemata. Legw pantote alhqeies. Mporei na peftw ejw stis probleceis moy. Exoyme ena oloklhro programma eqniko, perifereiako, kladiko. An erxomoyn kai elega ayto einai oloklhro to programma mas den qa me pisteye kanenas. Hrqa loipon kai eipa oti desmeyomai tis prwtes 30 meres apo thn orkwmosia ths kybernhsews na lysw ayta ta qemata kai qa ta lysoyme ayta ta qemata. Einai desmeysh, einai logos timhs pros ton ellhniko lao. Kai qa mporesoyme na sas ta lysoyme. Apo kei kai pera h aporrofhsh twn kondyliwn apo thn E.E. qa dwsei ena prosqeto ryqmo ths tajews toy 2%. H energopoihsh toy xrhmatisthrioy qa ferei nees ependyseis. Mono to 45% toy OTE an poylhqei qa exete kapoy 700 dis. Synepws den xreiazontai qysies. Xreiazetai na meiwqei o dhmosios tomeas xwris qysies kai mporw na sas to apodeijw me ariqmoys ayto to pragma edw apoce. Gia na ftasoyme apo to 40% na meiwqoyme sto 30% toy A.E.P. Qelhsh gia doyleia na yparxei kai apofasistikothta, na fygoyme apo ayth thn aprajia twn syskecewn, twn syzhthsewn, poy na mh shkwnei kanenas to xeri toy na pei elate na doylecoyme. Sto parelqon ti eixame kai katorqwname kai den mporoyme twra. Egw pisteyw oti exei o ellhniko laos th dynamh, thn apofasistikothta kai den mporoyme na perifronoyme thn ikanothta toy ellhnikoy laoy epeidh einai anikanoi, endexomenws, oi politikoi. Ayth h nootropia prepei na pacei. Kai bebaiws dexomai oti den yparxei empistosynh toy kosmoy stoys politikoys. Alla edw eimaste gia na apodeijoyme oti ayta poy yposxeqhkame qa ta kanoyme prajh.

ERWTHSH 24.

Erwthsh: Eipate oti yparxei ena etoimo, mesoproqesmo ejoplistiko programma, to opoio omws qa anakoinwqei meta tis ekloges. To kostos toy den to jeroyme o k. Arsenhs kai o k. Pagkalos exoyn dhlwsei oti o proypologismos toy ypoyrgeioy Eqnikhs Amynas qa einai ayjhmenos thn epomenh xronia. Den jeroyme omws pws qa einai ta alla megeqh. Giati na mhn jeroyme prin tis ekloges an qa ayjhqei h qa meiwqei o proypologismos gia thn Paideia, gia thn Ygeia h gia thn Koinwnikh Pronoia. Giati na mhn jeroyme st' alhqeia an oi eishghseis poy jeroyme oti einai sto syrtari toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn gia perikopes foroapallagwn, epidomatwn, koinwnikwn paroxwn qa ginoyn dektes h den qa ginoyn dektes. Giati toso konta pia sthn wra toy proypologismoy na mhn jeroyme apo prin tis ekloges ti proypologismo qa exoyme an qa sas chfisoyme.

Kwstas Shmiths: Prwta ap' ola mia genikh parathrhsh epeidh akoysthke edw oti mporoyme na ayjhsoyme thn anaptyjh sto 4-5% oti h anaptyjh den diatassetai. H anaptyjh prokyptei apo diergasies oi opoies ginontai sthn oikonomia. Exoyn jekinhsei qetikes diergasies kai gi' ayto fetos qa exoyme anaptyjh 2,6% kai problepetai gia toy xronoy 3%. An diatassotan h anaptyjh, an to qema htan opws leei o k. Ebert na anaskoympwsoyme ta manikia mas kai qa petyxainame, tote giati epi Neas Dhmokratias, rwtaw, o mesos ryqmos anaptyjhs ta tria xronia htan 0,6%. Giati den epetyxe ayto to qaymasto 5%, giati den xarisan ola ayta ta xrhmata ston ellhniko lao kai breqhke h ellhnikh oikonomia se tetoia yfesh. Aytes oi syntages, oi opoies dinei o k. Ebert einai teleiws ejwpragmatikes. Leei gia paradeigma oti qa poylhsei to 45% toy OTE. An poylhsei to 45% toy OTE, prwta apo ola bebaia etsi den qa exei ton elegxo to ellhniko kratos, qa pesei h metoxh drastika. Den mporei na poylhqei enas tetoios ariqmos metoxwn. Kai as erqw sto erwthma sas k. Tsima. Emeis leme ayto to opoio mporoyme na kanoyme. Den bghkame na poyme pragmata, ta opoia qa htan poly eyxarista, na poyme oti qa ayjhsoyme, opws leei h N.D. tis dapanes gia thn Paideia sto 5% h prokeitai na ayjhsoyme tis dapanes gia thn Ygeia kai thn Pronoia sto 5%. Emeis exoyme pei oti qa ejakoloyqhsoyme ayth thn politikh. Thn politikh meiwshs twn elleimmatwn. Kai oson afora tis amyntikes dapanes ayto einai ena qema to opoio einai pros syzhthsh giati prepei na ejetasoyme poioi einai oi swstoi ejoplismoi kai me bash to skeptiko ayto, poioi ejoplismoi ejyphretoyn th xwra na kaqorisoyme kai poies qa einai h agores. To ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas exei kanei mia genikh protash. Qa thn doyme.

ERWTHSH 25.

Erwthsh: k. Proedre eixame ta teleytaia epeisodia sthn Kypro. Epeisodia poy stoixisan thn zwh se dyo Kyprioys. Katebhkate toso o Prwqypoyrgos oso kai eseis sth Megalonhso. O k. Proedros eixe epafes me to Eqniko Symboylio, prohdreyse, symprohdreyse. Eseis eixate epafes kai synomilies me politikoys. Qa hqela na sas rwthsw an exete thn aisqhsh k. Proedre oti bainoyme se lysh toy Kypriakoy, mia lysh typoy Ntehton, h opoia proetoimazetai gia to eggys, amesws epomeno xroniko diasthma;

Miltiadhs Ebert: Kat' arxhn prepei na sas enhmerwsw oti pisteyw oti tis ameses prosexeis hmeres to Eyrwkoinoboylio qa bgalei mia para poly qetikh apofash gia to Kypriako, gia ta teleytaia epeisodia kai qa epanabebaiwsei jana oti h Kypros qa entaxqei eji mhnes meta, qa arxisoyn oi diapragmateyseis jana meta th diakybernhtikh , sto telos ths diakybernhtikhs. Ayto einai ena qetiko stoixeio. Eidopoihse shmera o k. Santer oti qa proxwrhsei pros aythn thn kateyqynsh.Den pisteyw oti h Toyrkia einai etoimh gia opoiadhpote morfh dialogoy.Exei terastia problhmata h Toyrkia na antimetwpisei. Emfanisthkan oti hskoynto pieseis, logw twn amerikanikwn eklogwn.Pisteyw oti meta tis ekloges qa xalarwsei ayth h prospaqeia. Prepei na exoyme ypomonh kai epimonh na broyme ton katallhlo xrono gia na ginoyn oi diapragmateyseis. Ekeino gia to opoio prepei na eimaste etoimoi pantote einai na deixnoyme pros to ejwteriko oti oi Ellhnes eimaste enwmenoi kai se aythn thn eqnikh ypoqesh. Dioti an to Kypriako exei fqasei edw poy efqase, htan giati ta kommata kai sthn Aqhna kai sth Leykwsia dixasthkan. Kai se ayto akribws aposkopei h protash moy ston k. Shmith. Qa kalesoyme edw na einai oloi oi arxhgoi twn kommatwn, ypo thn proedria toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias kai na to syzhthsoyme na to antimetwpisoyme to Kypriako kai na emfanistoyme pros ta ejw me mia fwnh, thn ellhnikh fwnh kai oxi ths kommatikes antilhceis kai apoceis. Twra oson afora toys ejoplismoys,dioti ejwterikh politikh den mporei na yparxei swsth, xwris swsto amyntiko dogma.Treis fores exoyn ejaggelqei oi ejoplismoi, treis fores exoyn anablhqei. Phga sto Ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynas kai stenaxwrhqhka poly. Eipa ston k. Arsenh oti emeis qa sas sthrijoyme, mhn logariazetai tipote se opoiadhpote paraggelia qelete na kanete. Ayto to epishmainw kai ston k. Prwqypoyrgo.

ERWTHSH 26.

Erwthsh: k.Proedre, an pisteyete kai na exete endeijeis oti odeyoyme se kapoia lysh h prospaqeia lyshs typoy Nteiton sto Kypriako.

Kwstas Shmiths: Ayth h kybernhsh ekane ena, pisteyw, bhma to opoio mporei na bohqhsei se mia qetikh ejelijh toy Kypriakoy. Symfwnhse sto plaisio ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs na arxisoyn oi diapragmateyseis gia thn entajh ths Kyproy kai oi diapragmateyseis gia thn entajh ths Kyproy, dhmioyrgoyn mia dynamikh lysews toy Kypriakoy. To qema ths entajhs sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh einai anejarthto toy qematos toy politikoy problhmatos toy Kypriakoy, ths lysews toy politikoy problhmatos toy Kypriakoy, alla den payei taytoxrona na ephreazei thn en genei katastash. Pisteyoyme oti mesa apo tis diadikasies aytes qa yparxoyn prwtoboylies apo polles pleyres, allwste kai h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh apofasise na orisei kapoion kai orise ena proswpo, to opoio qa parakoloyqhsei thn ejelijh toy oloy problhmatos kai qa ergasqei gia na lyqei to Kypriako.Emeis den pisteyoyme oti yparxoyn magikes lyseis, oti mporoyn na epiteyxqoyn grhgora kai gia ayto kai se ayto to qema opws kai sta alla qemata ths ejwterikhs politikhs. Ekeino to opoio epidiwkoyme einai me mia polypleyrh diplwmatikh prospaqeia na piesoyme wste h Toyrkia na anagnwrisei oti xreiazetai na proxwrhsei se lyseis. Pote qa petyxei ayth h prospaqeia einai agnwsto, alla den prepei se kamia periptwsh na stamathsoyme na polemame, na agwnizomaste gi' ayto to skopo. Exoyme syzhthsei gi' ayto to qema sto Eqniko Symboylio poy phga kai milhsa me toys arxhgoys twn kommatwn kai yphrxe symptwsh apocewn oti xreiazetai emmonh. Ypomonh kai emmonh. Kai panw s' ayth th grammh doyleyoyme.

ERWTHSH 27.

Erwthsh: k. Proedre poia qewreitai thn megalyterh prosfora sas ews twra ston topo kai poio qewreitai oti qa einai to megalytero kako poy mporei na kanei ston topo o antipalos sas an eklegei prwqypoyrgos;

Kwstas Shmiths: Th prosfora moy ston topo k. Roysopoyle qa thn krinei o ellhnikos laos. Egw ekeino to opoio pisteyw oti exw syneisferei sthn politikh zwh sthn Ellada einai polles protaseis, idees, syzhthseis gyrw apo ton eksygxronismo, gyrw apo mia kritikh qewrhsh twn problhmatwn, gyrw apo mia organwsh pio dhmokratikh ths koinwnias, oti exw prosferei sto na yparjoyn nees kateyqynseis skecewn, nees anazhthseis kai etsi h politikh na kinhqei pros nees kateyqynseis. Pisteyw oti kai h syzhthsh poy egine sto PASOK sto teleytaio synedrio einai mia syzhthsh poy deixnei oti yparxei kati kainoyrio kai ayto to kainoyrio dhmioyrghqhke kai apo alloys kai apo mena. Oson afora to deytero skelos ths erwthshs pisteyw oti to megalo meionekthma ths Neas Dhmokratias einai oti den exei kati to sygkekrimeno, to opoio na paroysiasei, panw sto opoio na mporei na ginei mia oysiastikh syzhthsh. Einai mia apariqmhsh diaforwn metrwn, ta opoia exoyn to xarakthra yposxesewn eklogikwn ejaggeliwn. Den exoyn to xarakthra enos synektikoy programmatos panw sto opoio mporei na ginei mia paraqesh, panw sto opoio mporei na krinei h ellhnikh koinwnia. H ellhnikh koinwnia akoyei monaxa lefta kai kaleitai na apofasisei an qelei ayta ta lefta h an qelei parapanw lefta. H ellhnikh koinwnia prepei na apofasisei poia qa einai h tyxh ths, poio qa einai to mellon ths. Kai ayto prepei na diagrafei swsta.

ERWTHSH 28.

Erwthsh: Poia qewreitai thn megalyterh dikh sas prosfora ston topo kai poio qewreitai oti qa einai to megalytero kako poy qa kanei o antipalos sas an epaneklegei prwqypoyrgos;

Miltiadhs Ebert: H megalyterh moy prosfora ston topo, sthn mikrh stadiodromia poy exw mexri shmera thn politikh thn exete zhsei eseis oloi oi dhmosiografoi. Einai h eleyqerh radiofwnia kai h eleyqerh thleorash, h opoia anabaqmise thn dhmokratia ston topo mas, me ta meionekthmata ths. Einai h politikh ths eqnikhs symfiliwshs me to agalma ths symfiliwshs apo ton Dhmo ths Aqhnas. Ayto htan to mono dhmioyrgiko ergo poy mporesa na paroysiasw, oxi ws komma, alla ws atomo. Kai to ergo poy paroysiasa sto Dhmo ths Aqhnas kai sthn anaptyjh ths topikhs aytodioikhshs ws proedros ths KEDKE opoy oloi oi dhmarxoi anejarthtws se pio politiko kai ideologiko xwro anhkoyn, moy to exoyn anagnwrisei epishma. Gia ton k. Shmith, egw den qa milhsw gia to PASOK, qa milhsw gia ton k. Shmith. Kai m' olh th filia.

ERWTHSH 29.

Erwthsh: To shmerino sxhma dialogoy me mono dyo apo toys 6 arxhgoys kommatwn, antanakla kai thn nootropia sas gia thn epomenh Boylh; Oti ta mikrotera kommata gnwmhs kai pieshs anhkoyn sto periqwrio, ston skoypidonteneke toy koinoboyleytismoy; Epeidh milhsame poly politika kai poly gia programmata, skefteite oti enas apo aytoys poy mas blepoyn einai enas neos 16 etwn, poy phgainei se ena lykeio to opoio moiazei me tis fylakes toy Alkatraz, me kakoplhrwmenoys kaqhghtes, trwei ta apogeymata toy sta frontisthria, antimetwpizetai oxi ws maqhths poy qelei na maqei, alla ws alogo koyrsas poy to ntoparoyne gia na jeperasei toys symmaqhtes toy kai na mpei s' ena panepisthmio, poy 4 fores to xrono kleinei giati den exei poroys kai otan to teleiwsei exei 25% piqanothtes na meinei anergos. Mporeite na toy milhsete sth glwssa toy; Einai enas neos 16 etwn, den katalabainei apo programmata, den sas polyempisteyetai. Mporeite na toy dwsete mia elpida;

Miltiadhs Ebert: Qa sas apanthsw sto prwto erwthma. Egw eimai diateqeimenos na syzhthsw me ola ta kommata se ena stroggylo trapezi. Kai qysiazw estw kai thn proeklogikh sygkentrwsh ths N.D., prokeimenoy na ginei ayth h syzhthsh. Kai qa hqela na pw kai kati allo gia to erwthma poy qesate. Prin apo ola enas politikos prepei na zhthsei sygnwmh apo toys neoys anqrwpoys. Ean eixa ena 16ari mprosta moy qa toy 'lega "soy zhtw sygnwmh gia thn koinwnia poy exw dhmioyrghsei mexri shmera kai exw symballei kai egw s' aythn". Kai qa ton kaloysa mazi na ftiajoyme mia pio eytyxismenh koinwnia. Mesa apo thn anaptyjh kai mesa bebaia apo ena morfwtiko epipedo to opoio shmera den toy prosferoyme. Gi' ayto epimenoyme oti prepei na doqei to 5% toy AEP sthn Paideia, oti kai an shmainei ayto to pragma. Kai jerw poly kala ti shmainei. Den blepete oti se olh thn proeklogikh periodo den syzhthqhke oyte mia fora to qema ths Paideias, poy einai to prwto qema, to ayrio ths Ellados. Mpainoyme se neo aiwna kai den exei syzhthqei mexri shmera kai oyte mia erwthsh egine gia to qema ths Paideias. Exoyme parathsei kai ti kanoyme; Yposxomaste mesa sthn proeklogikh periodo oti qa proslaboyme neoys foithtes.Kai den mporoyme na diaqesoyme 7 ekatommyria kai kleinoyn ta panepisthmia.Pws na mas pistecoyn oi neoi anqrwpoi; Kai otan ayto to pragma to leei enas neos anqrwpos, o opoios qa eprepe na sebastei toys neoys kai ton idio toy ton eayto. Sebasmos loipon stoys neoys. Kai prin apo ola zhtas sygnwmh apo toys neoys, an qeleis na toys plhsiaseis kai na se katalaboyn. H apostash mas einai poly megalh.

ERWTHSH 30.

Erwthsh: To shmerino sxhma dialogoy me mono dyo apo toys 6 arxhgoys kommatwn, antanakla kai thn nootropia sas gia thn epomenh Boylh; Oti ta mikrotera kommata gnwmhs kai pieshs anhkoyn sto periqwrio, ston skoypidonteneke toy koinoboyleytismoy; Epeidh milhsame poly politika kai poly gia programmata, skefteite oti enas apo aytoys poy mas blepoyn einai enas neos 16 etwn, poy phgainei se ena lykeio to opoio moiazei me tis fylakes toy Alkatraz, me kakoplhrwmenoys kaqhghtes, trwei ta apogeymata toy sta frontisthria, antimetwpizetai oxi ws maqhths poy qelei na maqei, alla ws alogo koyrsas poy to ntoparoyne gia na jeperasei toys symmaqhtes toy kai na mpei s' ena panepisthmio, poy 4 fores to xrono kleinei giati den exei poroys kai otan to teleiwsei exei 25% piqanothtes na meinei anergos. Mporeite na toy milhsete sth glwssa toy; Einai enas neos 16 etwn, den katalabainei apo programmata, den sas polyempisteyetai. Mporeite na toy dwsete mia elpida;

Kwstas Shmiths: Qa epairna ayto to nearo kai qa koybentiaza mazi toy kai qa toy dihgomoyn pws htan h Ellada to 1940, to 1950, opws thn ezhsa egw sta niata moy. Oti htan paidia jypolyta, oti htan paidia poy peinagane, oti aytos piqanotata qa phgaine se ena sxoleio poy qa toy koyreyan ta mallia kai qa ton ypoxrewnan na foraei ena kapelo. Oti ta osa qa toy legan kai tote oi kaka plhrwmenoi daskaloi qa htan poly pio typopoihmena. Oti qa apaitoysan apo ayton pali thn aposthqish, thn opoia exei twra sta frontisthria. oti qa htan h koinwnia poly pio kleisth me ligoteres dynatothtes, poly perissoteroi ejanagkasmoi kai poly perissoteres pieseis. Oti qa yphrxan tote kai oi eqnikofrones kai mh. Oti piqanotata an eixe ena myalo pio anoixto qa eixe mia stampa, h opoia qa ton empodize na stadiodromhsei giati kai sto strato qa phgaine se mia diaforetikh kathgoria apo toys perissoteroys kai den qa ebriske doyleia giati den qa mporoyse na parei ena pistopoihtiko koinwnikwn fronhmatwn kai oti meta, an megalwne qa ejartiwtan apo to pelateiako kratos kai qa eprepe na exei sxeseis me kapoio boyleyth, gia na mporesei na brei doyleia. Oti an megalwne kai ebriske doyleia to syndikalistiko kinhma den qa htan dynato na ton bohqhsei kok. Kai qa toy elega exoyn allajei ta pragmata me agwna ela mazi twra na ftiajoyme thn Ellada poy qeleis kai sy. Ela mazi twra na agwnistoyme, mporei na yparjei elpida arkei na to qeloyme. Mazi qa ta kataferoyme.

(c) 1996 Makedoniko Praktoreio Eidhsewn

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