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Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-04-17

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA EPIKOINWNIAS

GENIKH GRAMMATEIA ENHMERWSHS

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Trith, 17 Aprilioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 68430451

Ekdosh 1

brf1704

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 17 Aprilioy 2007

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete.

H synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs asxolhqhke me to qema mias neas epixeirhmatikothtas gia to pws qa parameinoyn zwntanes epixeirhseis poy exoyn problhmata, pws qa apofeygontai oi dolies ptwxeyseis kai en genei thn anamorfwsh toy ptwxeytikoy kwdika o opoios isxyei sth bash toy apo to 1835. H prwth kai monh allagh poy exei ginei htan to 1937. Exoyn hdh probei se dhlwseis oi synarmodioi Ypoyrgoi k. k. Papalhroyras kai Sioyfas. Einai mia poly shmantikh parametros ths epixeirhmatikhs zwhs toy topoy gia thn opoia h Nea Dhmokratia eixe desmeytei, apo tote poy htan sthn antipoliteysh kai rhtws sto programma ths, na anamorfwsei. Mia doyleia poy exei jekinhsei apo to fqinopwro toy 2004 me th symmetoxh poly gnwstwn kaqhghtwn kai dikastwn. Shmera anakoinwnontai orismena stoixeia. Oloklhrwnetai h diadikasia kai elpizoyme entos toy epomenoy diasthmatos twn oligwn mhnwn na erqei sth Boylh gia chfish enas kwdikas, pragmatika shmantikos gia mia nea epixeirhmatikothta, opws anefera kai prohgoymenws.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

KAKALHS: Ektos apo th symbash me th JP MORGAN, poy eipate oti h kybernhsh qa kataqesei sth Boylh tis epomenes hmeres, den eipate bebaia poia hmeromhnia, h kybernhsh qa kataqesei kai th symbash Swap, antallaghs epitokiwn poy synodeyei to omologo twn 280 ekatommyriwn eyrw me ta tessera asfalistika Tameia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw, alla h kybernhsh den protiqetai na apokrycei kanena stoixeio poy na afora ayth thn ypoqesh.

KAKALHS: Pote qa kataqesei th symbash;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Syntoma. Den gnwrizw na sas pw thn akribh hmeromhnia.

GKOYTZANHS: Yparxoyn shmera dhmosieymata gia 13 Tameia ta opoia ``espasan'' peripoy thn idia epoxh, tis idies hmeres, ta staqera omologa poy eixan kai agorasan domhmena. Epibebaiwnei ayta ta stoixeia h kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se ligotero apo mia wra apo twra, o armodios Ypoyrgos Apasxolhshs k. Tsitoyridhs qa dwsei synenteyjh Typoy gia to qema twn omologwn, se synadelfoys sas poy asxoloyntai me to reportaz. Opote qa protimoysa shmera na mhn pw tipote perissotero gia idio to qema twn omologwn. An yparxei kati poy qa meinei ws aporia, ayrio na to syzhthsoyme kai pali.

SPYRAKH: Epeidh shmera yparxoyn epishs dhmosieymata sth dyskolia poy antimetwpizei o epikefalhs ths Arxhs gia to brwmiko xrhma k. Zormpas, qa hqela na rwthsw, ean yparxei apo pleyras kybernhsews mia sygkekrimenh politikh kateyqynsh pros tis kybernhtikes yphresies gia th dieykolynsh ayths ths ereynas. To lew giati emfanizontai Ypoyrgeia kai yphresies oti den dieykolynoyn thn ereyna.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas qymizw oti h syskech ypo ton k. Alogoskoyfh, h opoia katakriqhke apo meros toy Typoy, ayth thn ennoia eixe. Dhladh na bohqhqei h Arxh ths opoias proistatai o k. Zormpas kai poy allwste qesmoqethqhke epi kybernhsews Neas Dhmokratias, kaqws epishs kai h Epitroph Kefalaiagoras, prokeimenoy na mporesoyn na antlhsoyn opoia stoixeia xreiazontai.

SPYRAKH: Fainetai oti antimetwpizei dyskolies. H syskech prohghqhke edw kai ena mhna peripoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to gnwrizw. Alla eimai bebaios oti ean antimetwpisei dyskolies qa apeyqynqei ston Ypoyrgo Oikonomikwn, o opoios allwste gi` ayto to logo kalese sth synanthsh ekeinh kai eipe oti ``otidhpote xreiastei apo tis yphresies qa prepei na parasxeqei amesws''. Ara eimai epifylaktikos ws pros thn plhroforia.

KAKALHS: Toylaxiston 10 asfalistika Tameia diaqetoyn metoxes panw apo to 50% ths perioysias toys yperbainontas kata poly to orio poy qetei o nomos. H kybernhsh den ofeile na elegjei thn thrhsh toy nomoy; Giati den to ekane;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qymaste kala, eimai bebaios, oti eseis me eixate rwthsei kai epanhlqa thn epomenh hmera, peripoy prin treis ebdomades, na sas apanthsw gia to ti isxyei se ayto to qema. Den exw na prosqesw tipote perissotero.

SPYRAKH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, xqes perihlqe ypoch moy sto ``MEGA'' h plhroforia oti ton perasmeno Septembrio, to Septembrio toy 2006, se ktirio ths odoy Stadioy to opoio anhkei sto Ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs, proseklhqhsan Dioikhtes Tameiwn kai melh Dioikhtikwn Symboyliwn, se aytoys apeyqynqhkan dyo stelexh toy Ypoyrgeioy Apasxolhshs, o k. Mamwnas o Genikos Grammateas kai o k. Eygenios Papadopoylos o Eidikos Grammateas kai apeyqynqhkan me thn parotrynsh pros toys Dioikhtes kai ta melh twn Dioikhtikwn Symboyliwn, na agorazoyn omologa gia to kalo ths xwras, gia to kalo toy kratoys. Exete ypoch sas gia th sygkekrimenh sygkentrwsh kai gia periexomeno twn protropwn poy aphyqynan ta sygkekrimena stelexh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw to periexomeno twn syzhthsewn. Ekeino to opoio gnwrizw -etyxe na syzhthsw polla qemata ayto to diasthma me toys synarmodioys Ypoyrgoys kai plhroforhqhka apo ton k. Tsitoyridh- oti apo to Septembrio kai kaqe prwth Trith ekastoy mhnos ginetai mia synanthsh sto Ypoyrgeio  ekei poy anafereste, o xwros einai to Ypoyrgeio- me Dioikhtes Organismwn gia yphresiakoys logoys. Qa parakalesw gia perissoteres plhrofories na rwthsete sto armodio Ypoyrgeio. Den exei dhladh, thn ennoia mias kryfhs synanthshs. Ayth h opoia anaferete, einai mia synanthsh poy epanalambanetai apaj toy mhnos kai malista, opws moy eipe o k. Tsitoyridhs, kaqe prwth Trith.

SPYRAKH: Den eipa oti einai kryfh. Rwthsa gia to periexomeno twn systasewn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mporw na gnwrizw.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, thn perasmenh ebdomada, sth synenteyjh poy edwse o k. G. Alogoskoyfhs, eipe oti ta Tameia agorasan domhmena omologa ycoys peripoy 770 ekatommyriwn eyrw, alla to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias exei ekdwsei domhmena omologa, synolikoy ycoys 1,8 dis eyrw. Yparxei 1 dis eyrw. Mhpws jerei h kybernhsh poy dieteqhsan ta omologa ycoys 1 dis eyrw;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw thn entypwsh oti emmesws apanthsa se synadelfo sas xqes. Einai bebaio oti to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn qa exei na dwsei kalyterh apanthsh apo th dikh moy. Alla apo tis plhrofories poy exw antlhsei, apo to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn, exoyn agorastei apo idiwtes, apo jenoys oikoys klp. Ayto, qa moy epitrecete na pw, oti apodeiknyei th shmasia poy exoyn ayta ta omologa. Ennow thn ajia kai to ofelos poy mporei na exei kapoios poy ta agorazei se mia oikonomia opws h ellhnikh, poy ta teleytaia dyomish  tria xronia trexei me poly ychloys ryqmoys anaptyjhs. Epishs, dinei kai mia amesh apanthsh se osoys kindynologoyn gi` aytoy toy eidoys ta omologa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, gia ta omologa maqainoyme poio einai to poson kai ti xanetai peripoy. Gia ta Tameia poy epaijan sto xrhmatisthrio, pote qa maqoyme posa lefta xaqhkan;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora thn prwth parathrhsh, qa moy epitrecete na pw oti xrhmata apo ta omologa ta opoia exoyn thn eggyhsh toy ellhnikoy dhmosioy, apo to akeraio dhladh ths ajias toys, den xanontai, den exoyn xaqei. Einai kai ayto mia akomh ``plhroforia'', h opoia dioxeteyqhke ton teleytaio kairo kai den alhqeyei. Se o,ti afora to deytero skelos toy erwthmatos sas, nomizw pws einai ths tajews twn pollwn trisekatommyriwn draxmwn h disekatommyriwn eyrw ta xrhmata ta opoia apwlesqhkan se ekeinh thn periodo poy lete. Eidika gia ta Tameia, exw thn entypwsh, me ta stoixeia ta opoia exoyn dhmosiopoihqei kata kairoys, oti yperbainoyn ta 2 disekatommyria eyrw, ta xrhmata poy xaqhkan apo ta kefalaia twn Tameiwn kai oxi apo epitokia bebaiws h apo kerdh. Apo ta kefalaia.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gi` ayta qa yparjoyn kapoies poinikes kyrwseis, efoson politikes den mporei na yparjoyn afoy eginan ekloges. Poinikes qa yparjoyn gi` aytoys poy htan tote sta Tameia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai orqo ayto poy lete oti me nomo poy eixe frontisei na ferei h prohgoymenh kybernhsh paragrafontai oi kyrwseis ekeines poy aforoyn politiko proswpiko. Alla paramenoyn en isxy oi kyrwseis se dioikhtiko proswpiko, dhladh oi poinikes diadikasies. Gnwrizete oti mia tetoia diadikasia, opws h diadikasia ths ``DEKA'', einai se ejelijh. Qelw na shmeiwsw se ayto oti en antiqesei me thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, ayth h kybernhsh efere qesmoys diafaneias, pleistoys osoys, se zhthmata opws ayta poy anaferate. Kai h Epitroph Kefalaiagoras -opws eixa thn eykairia polles fores na pw se ayth thn aiqoysa kai molis xqes na epanalabw- enisxyqhke qesmika poly perissotero, otan sto parelqon den eixe thn enisxysh. Den qelw na milhsw gia politikh boylhsh h gia proswpikh boylhsh twn melwn ths tote Epitrophs Kefalaiagoras, alla na milhsw gia th qesmikh dynatothta poy eixan. Twra thn exoyn kai apodeiknyetai sthn prajh. Einai dhladh shmantiko oti anadeiknyontai zhthmata ta opoia kai qesmika katoxyrwnoyn ton Ellhna polith kai beltiwnoyn thn poiothta ths Dhmokratias. Kai panw ap` ola dhmioyrgoyn mia sxesh eilikrineias kai empistosynhs metajy Politeias kai polith. Dhladh jeroyn oi polites oti kai se ena qema tetoio, to opoio einai dysaresto gia oloys, h kybernhsh den kleinei ta matia, den prospaqei na apoprosanatolisei kanenan alla eyqews kai me eilikrineia to xeirizetai apo thn prwth stigmh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Yparxei omws k. Ypoyrge, kindynos paragrafhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora lete to Xrhmatisthrio toy 1999.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Nai, nai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizw oti synexizetai toylaxiston h ypoqesh ths ``DEKA'', poy einai mia poly shmantikh ypoqesh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Mono mia. Ayth thn jeroyme. Sta alla;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se alles ypoqeseis poy ontws exoyn politika sigoyra paragrafei -an epitrepetai h ekfrash- h prospaqeia poy ginetai einai apo th Dikaiosynh kai oxi apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh, opws jerete, gia na apodoqei Dikaiosynh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Mia dieykrinish. Eipate twra prohgoymenws oti h kybernhsh den kleinei ta matia kai oti xeirizetai ta pragmata me eilikrineia. H dieykrinish afora to qema toy Xrhmatisthrioy h to qema me ta Tameia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ola ta qemata poy aforoyn se dhmosio xrhma.

PALAIOLOGOS: Gia na epekteinw twra thn erwthsh, epeidh eimaste kai desmioi ths epikairothtas kai eidika ths politikhs epikairothtas, yparxoyn dyo dhmoskophseis poy eidan xqes to brady to fws ths dhmosiothtas apo to ALTER sto deltio toy k. Xatzhnikolaoy. Apoteinontai politikes eyqynes apo th syntriptikh pleiochfia twn politwn gia to qema twn omologwn kai twn Tameiwn se ypoyrgoys ths kybernhshs, se treis ypoyrgoys, alla bebaiws kai ston Prwqypoyrgo. To na sas zhthsw to sxolio, isws endexomenws antilambanomai ti qa peite. To qema einai, ti mporeite na peite sthn koinh gnwmh poy apodidei eyqynes kai malista zhta ton anasxhmatismo h thn antikatastash twn ypoyrgwn poy kata thn apoch ths eyqynontai gia thn ypoqesh twn omologwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora to qema toy anasxhmatismoy, exw apanthsei. Na mhn pw kati perissotero. Se o,ti afora ta ypoloipa: Pisteyw oti ayth h sxesh empistosynhs, h eilikrineia sta politika mas hqh, einai mia ypoqesh poy mas afora ws kybernhsh, oxi giati diaferoyme apo toys alloys ypo thn ennoia oti emeis hrqame me megalytero hqiko baros, alla giati hrqame na milhsoyme stoys Ellhnes polites me to hqiko baros. To hqiko baros den exei posothta. Den einai mikrotero h megalytero. Yparxei h den yparxei. Ayto to hqiko baros, loipon, me to opoio apeyqynqhkame stoys Ellhnes polites einai poy qeloyme na synodeysei thn tetraetia ayth ths Neas Dhmokratias. Kai den to qeloyme gia alloys logoys, para dioti ayto apaitoyn oi Ellhnes polites. Oi Ellhnes polites apaitoyn eilikrineia. Apaitoyn politikoys oi opoioi qa toys koitazoyn sta matia kai qa toys lene thn alhqeia. Ayto kaname kai ayto prospaqoyme na kanoyme synexws. Antilambanomaste -kai antilambanontai oloi- oti mia ypoqesh ean koykoylwqei, den einai oti wfelei h blaptei kapoion ekeinh th stigmh. Blaptei thn poiothta ths Dhmokratias panw ap' ola. Kai gi` ayth thn poiothta ths Dhmokratias exoyme dwsei maxes kai qa synexisoyme na dinoyme. Antilambanomai kai sebomai tis diaforetikes apoceis. Sebomai ta erwthmata ta opoia dhmioyrgoyntai se polloys Ellhnes polites. To exw pei kai allh fora se ayth thn aiqoysa. Einai poly shmantiko omws  kai epitrecte moy na epimeinw- to oti mia kybernhsh me eilikrineia prospaqei na dhmioyrghsei sxeseis empistosynhs ekei poy exoyn diarragei, apo mia seira pollwn problhmatikwn qematwn, sto parelqon.

MELIGKWNHS: Prin to Pasxa h qesh ths kybernhshs, sxetika me to poy phgan ta omologa otan efygan apo to Geniko Logisthrio toy kratoys, htan oti den einai doyleia toy ypoyrgeioy Oikonomikwn na koita thn kateyqynsh twn omologwn afoy fygoyn. H kybernhsh, meta apo olo ayto poy egine to dysaresto qema, opws eipate, gia oloys, skeftetai na allajei ayto to kaqestws; Dhladh, na parakoloyqei apo edw kai pera poy pane ta omologa ta opoia ekdidontai apo to Geniko Logisthrio toy Kratoys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, qa moy epitrecete na pw oti den yphrje kybernhtikh topoqethsh, apo thn pleyra moy, poy na leei ayto. Egw hrqa mia mera se ayth thn aiqoysa, sas anegnwsa ena keimeno -to opoio malista sas eipa oti einai keimeno me plhrofories apo to ypoyrgeio Apasxolhshs- kai thn epomenh hmera sas anegnwsa ena antistoixo keimeno, me polles plhrofories, apo to ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn. Sto erwthma sas -ean to katalaba kala- qa apanthsw oti h diadikasia poy akoloyqeitai se oles tis eyrwpaikes xwres, akoloyqeitai kai sth dikh mas kai fysika den qa allajei.

KAKALHS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti xrhmata apo ta omologa den xanontai. Ayto einai typika swsto, alla menei na apodeixqei sth lhjh twn omologwn. Wstoso, o Proedros toy TAP-OTE k. Karaogloy dhlwse, xqes, oti to domhmeno omologo ycoys 25 ekat. poy eixe agorasei h prohgoymenh dioikhsh toy Tameioy stis 21 Ioynioy toy 2006 katagrafei hdh apwleies 15%-20%, dhladh gyrw sta pente ekatommyria. Bebaia, den reystopoieitai gia na fanei ayto to megeqos. Ara, pws lete oti den yparxoyn zhmies kai sta omologa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti exete dwsei monos sas thn apanthsh. Allwste, einai mia erwthsh poy moy apeyqynqhke prin apo dyo ebdomades gia antistoixes anafores dhmosiwn proswpwn se o,ti afora thn pragmatikh ajia. Kai sas apanthsa tote, me frash, malista, prohgoymenoy ypoyrgoy ths kybernhshs toy PASOK poy elege -isxyei ayto kai shmera kai qa isxyei kai ayrio- oti ena omologo to analyeis otan oloklhrwqei h xronikh ekeinh periodos gia thn opoia exei ekdoqei. Tote mporei na einai kapoios se qesh na brei to ofelos kai poio einai ayto to ofelos, dioti yparxei mia seira apo diakymanseis. Sto telos -epanalambanw- to kefalaio einai eggyhmeno. To pragmatiko ofelos toy, omws, qa to deis sto telos ths xronikhs periodoy.

KAKALHS: Prepei na einai 20 xronia, dhladh, ta Tameia gia na doyne ta ofelh. Ean xreiastoyn endiamesa xrhmata kai reystopoihsoyn tote;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti ena Tameio me th dioikhsh poy diaqetei, opws h epixeirhsh -giati den qelw na ginoyn taytiseis oti to Tameio einai epixeirhsh- apofasizei na proxwrhsei se mia ependysh, gnwrizontas oti ayta ta xrhmata den qa toy xreiastoyn gia ta epomena 10, 15 , 20 xronia. Qelw na pw, dhladh, oti otan apofasizete eseis, gia paradeigma, ws idiwths  pairnw ena antistoixo qema- na balete se kleisto logariasmo trapezas kapoia xrhmata gia ta epomena dyo xronia, gnwrizete, me th bebaiothta poy mporei na gnwrizei kaneis gia to ti tejetai h epioysia, oti den qa xreiastei na spasete ayth thn proqesmiakh kataqesh kai na parete nwritera ta xrhmata sas.

GKOYTZANHS: Exete epaneilhmmenws pei oti oi dhmoskophseis einai xrhsima ergaleia doyleias. Na ypoqesoyme oti kai ta porismata twn sygkekrimenwn dhmoskophsewn, poy eidan to fws ths dhmosiothtas aytes tis hmeres, qa ta labei ypoch ths h kybernhsh prin kaqorisei tis politikes ths energeies gia na bgei apo ayth th dysaresth ypoqesh kai ayth thn politikh krish toy teleytaioy dimhnoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas elega oti einai idiaiterws endiaferonta kai xrhsimotata.

GKOYTZANHS: Akoyte ta mhnymata twn politwn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qa proekteinw, qa elega, thn erwthsh toy k. Gkoytzanh. Epeidh eipate oti sthn oysia analyete kai blepete th xrhsimothta aytwn twn dhmoskophsewn, qa moy epitrecete na kanw come back sthn erwthsh poy ekana prohgoymenws. Den qelhsa na to kanw ekeinh th stigmh. To gegonos oti ayth th fora prosdiorizontai oi eyqynes se ena epipedo ychlotero apo o,ti toylaxiston anagotan mexri shmera, dhladh anagontai kai sto epipedo toy Prwqypoyrgoy, ayto h kybernhsh pws to proslambanei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa prohgoymenws. Nomizw oti kanate eseis o idios thn idia erwthsh. Thn ekane me diaforetiko tropo kai o k. Gkoytzanhs. Den exw na pw kati perissotero.

KAKALHS: To NAT den diaqetei kefalaia gia thn plhrwmh twn epikoyrikwn syntajewn meta ton Maio, symfwna me eggrafo ths Dieyqynshs Oikonomikwn toy Tameioy poy paroysiazei shmera o RIZOSPASTHS. Ti qa kanei gi` ayto h kybernhsh th stigmh poy proxwra se xaristikes ryqmiseis, xarizontas mia seira asfalistikes eisfores se efoplistes, opws ston idiokthth toy SEA DIAMOND.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Paroti gnwrizete kala oti exei apanthqei eparkws h erwthsh apo ton armodio ypoyrgo k. Kefalogiannh, epitrecte moy na meinw, mono gia na katagrafei ws apanthsh sto briefing, se tria shmeia: Prwton, to NAT htan kapote  kai milame gia prin 25 xronia peripoy- to kalytero Tameio. Dystyxws, shmera einai apo ta pio problhmatika. Kai einai apo ta pio problhmatika edw kai polla xronia, oxi mono shmera. Kai perysi kai propersi kai edw kai polla xronia egine problhmatiko to NAT apo mia seira energeiwn poy tis exei krinei h istoria, opws qa elegan kai kapoioi boyleytes h prwhn ypoyrgoi toy PASOK. Deyteron, qa hqela na shmeiwsw oti to NAT enisxyetai apo ton kratiko proypologismo kai ayto einai gnwsto. Den yparxei kanenas apolytws fobos gia toys syntajioyxoys. To trito kai teleytaio shmeio einai oti yparxei mia seira apo diadikasies poy einai gnwstes se oloys kai aforoyn to NAT kai alla Tameia. Na to pw me paradeigma, to eipe kai o k. Kefalogiannhs: Yparxoyn idiwtikes epixeirhseis oi opoies enisxyontai apo ta Koinotika Plaisia Sthrijhs, ara kai apo to ellhniko Dhmosio, gia na mporesoyn na dwsoyn doyleia se neoys anqrwpoys. Anti na enisxyoyme thn anergia, enisxyoyme thn ergasia. Dhladh, anti gia ena epidoma anergias 500 eyrw, didetai enas misqos 2.000 h 3.000 eyrw se ergazomenoys sto Emporiko Naytiko, prokeimenoy aytoi oi anqrwpoi na exoyn doyleia, na exoyn esoda kai na mhn einai anergoi, kaqhmenoi sto spiti toys kai pairnontas poly ligotera xrhmata. Ayth h enisxysh ginetai me ton tropo, poy eseis perigracate diaforetika, ws bohqeia pros epixeirhmaties. Oi epixeirhmaties xrwstoyn xrhmata sto NAT. To ellhniko Dhmosio enisxyei to NAT, giati -opws eipame- exei problhmata kai ta xrhmata ayta poy xrwstoyn oi epixeirhmaties ta katatmei, ta spaei se kommatia, prokeimenoy na enisxysei qeseis ergasias sth naytilia. Dhladh, den xarizei xrhmata se kanenan. Den jerw ean to ekana katanohto. Einai ofeiles poy exoyn aytoi oi idiokthtes, oi opoies anti na didontai kai na janaepistrefoyn, me ayto ton tropo enisxyoyn nees qeseis ergasias sth naytilia. To exei analysei kalytera apo emena o k. Manwlhs Kefalogiannhs.

KAKALHS: Na epimeinw ligo. Pws ejhgeite to gegonos oti to NAT brisketai se adynamia, symfwna kai me tis yphresies, na plhrwnei tis syntajeis kai thn idia stigmh ta efoplistika kerdh diarkws na ayjanontai. Na ayjanontai epishs kai ta eisithria sth naysiploia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti poly eyxaristws o k. Kefalogiannhs qa sas edine kai shmera -ean qelate- se mia synanthsh poly endiaferoyses apanthseis gia thn poreia toy Tameioy aytoy kai ta problhmata ta opoia dhmioyrghqhkan, dystyxws, me th dioikhsh poy askhqhke epi polla xronia. Mporw na to kanonisw, ean qelete.

SPYRAKH: Pws antimetwpizete sthn kybernhsh ton kindyno na xarakthristoyn akyres oi kataqeseis poy edwsan orismenoi ek twn emplekomenwn sthn ypoqesh ths Paianias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai ena nomikhs shmasias qema. Den eimai se qesh na sas dwsw sygkekrimenes apanthseis. Nomizw oti ean apeyqynqeite sta armodia Ypoyrgeia qa parete kalyterh apanthsh. Den allazei omws thn oysia toy qematos, ap` oti me diabebaiwnoyn oi gnwrizontes.

SPYRAKH: To rwtw giati oi plhrofories apo thn Astynomia poy exoyn...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Tis diabasa stis efhmerides shmera.

SPYRAKH: Nai. Lene oti ayto egine me th synainesh...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me th diadikasia toy martyra kai oxi toy en dynamei kathgoroymenoy, epeidh symmeteixe. Me diabebaiwnoyn oti einai nomikhs ajias qema, oxi meizonos h hssonos ajias, den eimai se qesh na to pistopoihsw, den exw tetoia eparkeia gnwsewn. Alla, qa parakalesw na apeyqynqeite sto armodio Ypoyrgeio na sas dwsei peraiterw dieykriniseis.

SPYRAKH: Hqela na sas pw oti ayto poy maqainoyme einai oti h olh diadikasia egine kai me th gnwsh armodioy ths Eisaggelias. Apo thn pleyra ths Astynomias toylaxiston, ayto legetai. Gi` ayto perissotero rwtw: An ektimate oti olo ayto to pragma dhmioyrgei problhmata sthn ejelijh ths ypoqeshs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa hqela na proxwrhsw se mia proxeirh ektimhsh, mhn exontas ola ta dedomena.

PALAIOLOGOS: Ta armodia Ypoyrgeia poy eipate, poia einai; Ennoeite to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs kai to Ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akribws.

PALAIOLOGOS: Giati, apeyqynqhkame ston Ypoyrgo Dikaiosynhs alla den yphrje kati gi` ayto, den apanthse se ayto, gi` ayto lew.

ROYSOPOYLOS: En pash periptwsei, ta dyo Ypoyrgeia einai armodia. Qa epikoinwnhsw me toys synadelfoys moy meta to briefing, oytws wste na ginei h aparaithth enhmerwsh, an den exei hdh ginei, stoys syntaktes poy kalyptoyn to reportaz Dhmosias Tajews. Eimai bebaios oti oi synadelfoi sas qa exoyn rwthsei apo to prwi. Alla, qa epikoinwnhsw me toys dyo Ypoyrgoys na dwsoyn tis aparaithtes dieykriniseis stoys reporter twn dyo Ypoyrgeiwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Egw qa hqela na rwthsw kati pali gia ta omologa. Yparxei mia kataggelia apo thn pleyra ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. Yparxei san yponoia, an to qelete, diaxyth sthn atmosfaira, oti kapoia stigmh doqhke politikh entolh h odhgia h systash stoys dioikhtes kapoiwn Tameiwn na spasoyn ta omologa poy eixan kai na agorasoyn domhmena. H kybernhsh einai se qesh na mas diabebaiwsei oti den yphrje se kamia xronikh stigmh kanenos eidoys entolh h odhgia h systash h otidhpote;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw akoysei polla apo thn ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh, me prwto ap` ola ekeino to  mporei na to jexasan ekeinoi- alhstoy mnhmhs ``omologo twn 300 ekatommyriwn'', to opoio htan 280 ekatommyria. Eimai, loipon, poly epifylaktikos stis kataggelies poy akoyw apo thn ajiwmatikh antipoliteysh dioti pisteyw oti en pollois ginetai mia prospaqeia na ejyphrethqei mia kaqara kommatikh politikh, me ligotero endiaferon gia thn alhqeia kai me perissotero endiaferon gia th dhmioyrgia entypwsewn.

MAYRIDHS: Ws prwhn dhmosiografos, poy katexete pleon ena poly ychlo kybernhtiko ajiwma, qa legate stoys prwhn synadelfoys sas...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pws qymhqhkate oti hmoyn dhmosiografos;

DHMOSIOGRAFOI: Exoyn perasei polla xronia apo tote; Einai ligos o xronos...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sthn 7etia paragrafetai. Den exei paragrafei dhladh akoma. Asteieyomai bebaiws, gia na mh diabasw kamia anakoinwsh apo to syndikalistiko mas swmateio.

MAYRIDHS: Qa systhnate stoys prwhn synadelfoys sas na mhn anhsyxoyn gia tis ependyseis poy eginan sto Tameio toys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw milhsei me toses leptomereies gia ta omologa ayta, paroti exei endiaferon h erwthsh sas. Den qa mpw sth diadikasia na systhsw se kanenan ti na kanei. Pisteyw oti oi dioikhseis twn Tameiwn me thn aytonomia thn opoia exoyn, me thn ikanothta na krinoyn, apofasizoyn. Apo kei kai pera ekeino poy mporei na kanei h Politeia einai h qesmikh katoxyrwsh twn zhthmatwn, poy anaferame gia polles hmeres kai me polles leptomereies, wste na mhn epanalhfqoyn problhmata ta opoia emfanizontai na exoyn ayth th stigmh yparjei.

MAYRIDHS: Na mhn anhsyxoyme dhladh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa, to kefalaio einai eggyhmeno -ayta poy exoyme janapei- alla antilambanomai oti qelete mia ejeidikeymenh apanthsh. Nomizw oti kalyptetai apo ola osa sas exw apanthsei.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, o Prwqypoyrgos otan synantietai me toys Ypoyrgoys toy syzhta ef` olhs ths ylhs; Dhladh kai ta qemata poy apasxoloyn genikotera, ton anasxhmatismo, as poyme; To rwtaw ayto giati o k. Soyflias bgainontas apo to Megaro Majimoy afhse anoixto to endexomeno oti syzhthse kai gia to qema toy anasxhmatismoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai giati den rwthsate ton k. Soyflia kai rwtate emena; O Prwqypoyrgos syzhta ayta poy krinei o idios me ton kaqe Ypoyrgo xwrista h me thn Kybernhtikh Epitroph h me to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio klp. Ti na sas pw perissotero;

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Ara, krinei oti einai epikairo gia na to syzhthsei me ton k. Soyflia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete kanei mia anafora, exete bgalei ena symperasma kai qelete na bgalete kai ena deytero symperasma. Egw apanthsa.

KALOGEROPOYLOY: Den me bohqate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

KAKALHS: Epeidh xqes den eixate ypoch sas th dhlwsh toy k. Tsarls Ris gia...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei h apanthsh poy edwsa xqes, akomh kai twra poy th diabasa.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, na oloklhrwsw thn erwthsh: Pws topoqeteitai h kybernhsh apenanti sto endexomeno kai taytoxrona amerikaniko aithma, na mhn perasei rwsiko fysiko aerio apo ton ellhnoitaliko agwgo poy qa to metaferei mesw ths Elladas sthn Eyrwph;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei h apanthsh gia th symfwnia thn opoia exei ypogracei h Ellada. Kai h Ellada threi tis symfwnies ths.

NASOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, me dedomeno oti h qesh ths kybernhshs einai pws oi dioikhseis twn Tameiwn kinoyntai aytonomws kai oti h kybernhsh den eixe gnwsh, den hjere thn ependysh poy eixe ginei sta domhmena omologa, qelw na rwthsw to ejhs: O armodios Yfypoyrgos, o k. Doykas, poy ejedwse ta omologa ayta exei pei oti den hjere kai o idios, alla en pash periptwsei ean ton eixan rwthsei ta Tameia qa toys eixe pei, qa eixe symboyleysei na mhn kanoyn tetoioy eidoys ependysh. Ayth einai kai qesh ths kybernhshs; An gnwrize qa eixe pei sta Tameia na mhn agorasoyn domhmena omologa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qymamai ayth th dhlwsh. Qa prepei na milhsw me ton k. Doyka na dw pws akribws eixe diatypwsei th dhlwsh toy. Giati antilambaneste oti mia diaforetikh proseggish, anafora sto keimeno, mporei na dhmioyrghsei alles entypwseis. Den amfisbhtw to logo kanenos edw mesa  to exw janapei kai alles fores- alla an den exw diabasei akribws th dhlwsh, den exw milhsei me ton armodio, den qa hqela na parw qesh.

GKOYTZANHS: Hdh apo xqes o k. Tsitoyridhs proanhggeile oti sth shmerinh synenteyjh Typoy qa dwsei stoixeia gia th diaxeirish ths perioysias twn Tameiwn thn periodo 1999  2002. Ayto emas mas fainetai gia symchfismos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei mia megalh syzhthsh, ontws, peri symchfismoy. Akoysa kai diabasa polla. Qa sas elega oti  kai to exw janapei polles fores- to kratos exei mia synexeia. H kybernhsh, kaqe kybernhsh, antilambanetai ta pragmata me ton idio h me diaforetiko tropo, analoga me ton poio tomea politikhs milame. As poyme, sthn ejwterikh politikh, se zhthmata eyrwpaikhs proseggishs ths Toyrkias antilambanomaste ta pragmata me ton idio tropo h me poly kontino tropo. Se zhthmata diafaneias to antilambanomaste me teleiws diaforetiko tropo. Den mporei kaneis, para na qymhqei thn epistolh Karamanlh pros Shmith to kalokairi toy 2000 kai thn apanthsh oti den yparxoyn zhthmata diafqoras h adiafaneias ston topo. Einai bebaio, loipon, oti exoyme diaforetikes proseggiseis, diaforetikes antilhceis. Einai bebaio omws oti h zwh den jekinhse xqes, oyte stis 7 Martioy toy 2004, oyte sthn antistoixh hmeromhnia twn eklogwn toy 2000, oyte toy  96 k.o.k. Yparxei, loipon, mia diadikasia sygkrishs twn pragmatwn. To sygkritiko stoixeio, einai oysiastiko stoixeio, einai oysiwdes gia na dwsei apotelesma. Ean h sygkrish einai kalyterh h xeiroterh den mporei na ginei mono epi th basei toy shmera, qa prepei na ginei kai epi th basei toy xqes. Den einai, loipon, kapoios aytoskopos h kapoia idiotyph antilhch peri symchfismoy, poy odhgei polloys Ypoyrgoys ths kybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias, stelexh ths Neas Dhmokratias, boyleytes alla kai dhmosiografoys poy grafoyn analyseis h reportaz, h anafora kai sto parelqon. Ekei poy ginetai mia anafora sto parelqon, ginetai akribws gia na yparjei ayth h dieykolynsh sta matia toy polith, na mporei na sygkrinei. Exw pei polles fores oti den einai mono to oti o poliths krinei, alla sygkrinei kiolas. Yparxei, loipon, mia shmantikh diafora, kata th gnwmh moy, thn opoia elpizw na exw kanei katanohth sthn apanthsh moy.

GKOYTZANHS: Ypo thn proypoqesh oti qa mas dwsei antistoixa stoixeia kai gia thn periodo 2004  2007, na mporoyme na sygkrinoyme. Etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoeitai, bebaiws.

GKOYTZANHS: Na mhn perimenoyme thn epomenh kybernhsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws. Ma, nomizw oti ta stoixeia, gia paradeigma, sthn perioysia twn Tameiwn, doqhkan. Kai gia to 2004 kai gia to 2005 kai gia to 2006. To 2007 den exei teleiwsei akomh. Alla, gia peite moy alhqeia, otan akoyte ton arxhgo ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs na leei sth Boylh ``phrame thn perioysia twn Tameiwn sta 6 dis kai thn phgame sta 21'', den einai ena poly qetiko stoixeio ayto, etsi opws prospaqei na to paroysiasei; Einai. An akoygate oti apo ta 21 ftasame sta 15, qa legame oti h epomenh trietia htan katastrofikh. Otan omws apo ta 21 phgame sta 31, qa legame oti einai akomh pio apodotikh analogika me ta xronia poy prohghqhkan. Sta 11 xronia peripoy 15 ekatommyria, sta 3 xronia 10 ekatommyria ayjhsh ths perioysias twn Tameiwn. Ayth h sygkrish pisteyete den exei endiaferon gia ton polith; Eimai bebaios, gia sas exei endiaferon, ws dhmosiografos.

MAYRIDHS: Th dynatothta stoys polites na sygkrinoyn kai politikes qa th dwsete kapoia stigmh h qa syzhtame synexeia gia skandala, diafqora, diaplokes kai tetoia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H sygkrish twn politikwn nomizw oti ginetai eite se mikra eite se megala qemata. As poyme, ena paradeigma einai h eisagwgikh moy dhlwsh gia to shmerino qema ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs. To oti anamorfwnetai enas kwdikas poy afora thn epixeirhmatikothta, qeseis ergasias kai mia seira pollwn  pollwn problhmatwn poy gennhqhkan apo ofeiletes oi opoio ptwxeysan, o opoios kwdikas isxyei apo to 1835 kai to 1937 htan h monadikh anamorfwsh, einai mia diadikasia allaghs kapoiwn pragmatwn. To oti allajan seira qematwn sthn Paideia, sta Panepisthmia mas me to nomo - plaisio, einai epishs mia seira shmantikwn apofasewn poy apeyqynetai sthn energo politikh drash kai bebaiws dinei th dynatothta kai ekei na kanei kaneis sygkriseis. Ta apotelesmata twn strathgikwn epilogwn kai twn strathgikwn kinhsewn, mporei na einai apotelesmata poy qa fanoyn se baqos megalyteroy xronoy apo to ejamhno h to etos. Alla sigoyra yparxoyn polles tetoies politikes kinhseis mesa sthn trietia. Kai sigoyra yparxei mia diaforetikh antilhch sthn opoia moy doqhke h eykairia na anaferqw kai nwritera sta zhthmata diafaneias kai xqes.

GKATSIOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, afoy anaferqhkate sto nomo plaisio gia thn anabaqmish twn AEI, tis hmeres poy htan na katateqei to nomosxedio sth Boylh, mas eixate pei oti enisxytika qa erqoyn dyo akomh nomosxedia. To ena qa aforoyse thn ereyna kai to allo ta metaptyxiaka. Exete kati neotero gi` ayto na mas peite;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw thn entypwsh oti -xwris na exw milhsei mazi ths- h ayth thn ebdomada h thn epomenh, h k. Giannakoy qa exei kapoies epafes gi` ayto to qema. Alla qa hqela na epikoinwnhsw prwta mazi ths gia na to pistopoihsw. Nomizw oti h ayth thn Paraskeyh h thn epomenh ebdomada qa yparjoyn kapoies synanthseis. Pantws to Ypoyrgeio epejergazetai kai ta dyo nomosxedia.

Sas eyxaristw.


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