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Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-11-08

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 8 Noembrioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 104873386

Ekdosh 1

brf0811

ANAPLHRWTHS KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 8 Noembrioy 2007

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON ANAPLHRWTH KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Xairete.

" O Ypoyrgos Apasxolhshs kai Koinwnikhs Prostasias k. Basilhs Magginas, ypegrace shmera to Dioikhtiko Kanonismo efarmoghs ths Symfwnias Koinwnikhs Asfalishs Elladas kai Aystralias me ton diapisteymeno sth xwra mas presbh ths Aystralias. O Dioikhtikos aytos Kanonismos --prokeitai gia ena texniko keimeno-- afora sthn efarmogh ths Dimeroys Symfwnias Koinwnikhs Asfalishs metajy Elladas kai Aystralias, poy ypografhke sthn Kampera stis 23 Maioy 2007, kata th diarkeia ths epishmhs episkechs poy pragmatopoihse o Prwqypoyrgos sthn Aystralia fetos. Me to Dioikhtiko Kanonismo orizontai oi diadikasies poy qa akoloyqhsoyn oi dyo Organismoi Syndeshs twn dyo xwrwn sta plaisia ths amoibaias synergasias kai plhroforhshs sxetika me thn katabolh twn syntajiodotikwn paroxwn stoys dikaioyxoys.

Sas ypenqymizw oti ayto einai ena qema to opoio apasxoloyse edw kai polla xronia, kyriws toys Ellhnes omogeneis oi opoioi zoysan sthn Aystralia, erxontan edw, yphrxan megala texnika problhmata kai lyqhke meta apo makres diapragmateyseis kai antallages apocewn metajy twn dyo kybernhsewn. Shmeiwnetai oti gia th xwra mas ws Organismoi Syndeshs exoyn orisqei to IKA  ETAM kai o OGA, enw gia thn Aystralia to Centrelink kai to Taxation Office. Dhladh, h dikh toys eforia. Epishmainetai oti h Symfwnia Koinwnikhs Asfalishs ths Elladas kai Aystralias qa teqei se isxy amesws meta thn kyrwsh ths apo ta Koinoboylia twn dyo xwrwn. Problepetai entos toy 2008 kai sas to lew ayto dioti einai mia diakratikh symfwnia h opoia prepei na egkriqei kai apo to diko mas Koinoboylio.

" Exoyme anaferqei para polles fores ton teleytaio kairo se prwtoboylies poy analambanei h kybernhsh sta qemata toy tomea toy periballontos. Einai gnwsto oti h eyaisqhsia mas einai megalh kai antimetwpizoyme ola ayta ta qemata poy exoyn sxesh me to periballon me ton tropo kai me thn eyqynh thn opoia exoyme apenanti stis shmerines kai tis mellontikes genies. S` ayta ta plaisia qa hqela na sas epanalabw dhlwseis poy ekane xqes o Ypoyrgos Periballontos, Xwrotajias kai Dhmosiwn Ergwn k. Giwrgos Soyflias kai exoyn sxesh me ta prostima synolikoy ycoys 1,4 ekatommyriwn eyrw, poy epeblhqhsan se etaireies poy drasthriopoioyntai sthn perioxh toy Aswpoy potamoy. Ap` to 2004 kai meta ginontai synexeis elegxoi apo toys Epiqewrhtes Periballontos toy YPEXWDE sthn perioxh toy Aswpoy potamoy. Sas ypenqymizw oti prin apo ligo kairo, o idios se ayth thn aiqoysa, sas eixa pei oti exei enisxyqei se shmantiko baqmo to swma twn Epiqewrhtwn Periballontos. Mexri ton Aygoysto toy 2007 eixan diapistwqei 23 parabaseis kai eixan epiblhqei prostima synolikoy ycoys 530.000 eyrw. Apo tis arxes toy perasmenoy Aygoystoy, otan dhladh diapistwqhke h yparjh ejasqenoys xrwmioy ston Aswpo potamo, meta apo toys texnikoys elegxoys poy eginan, oi elegxoi twn Epiqewrhtwn Periballontos toy YPEXWDE entaqhkan, ayjhqhkan poly kai hdh exoyn jeperasei toys 50. Apo thn oloklhrwsh ths diadikasias meroys twn elegxwn aytwn -  dhladh den exoyn oloklhrwqei oloi oi elegxoi, einai mia texnikh diadikasia poy brisketai se ejelijh- - epiballontai prostima synolikoy ycoys, 1,4 ekatommyriwn eyrw se 20 etaireies kai oloi oi fakeloi twn parabasewn diabibazontai taytoxrona kai stis eisaggelikes Arxes gia poinikes kyrwseis. Den qa mpw sta epi meroys posa ta opoia ypeblhqhsan. Ayta mporeite na ta breite kallista apo thn anakoinwsh toy armodioy Ypoyrgeioy kai tis dhlwseis poy ekane o k. Soyflias. Qa hqela omws na ypenqymisw orismena stoixeia gia mia akomh fora gia na ta exoyme ypoch mas oloi. Symfwna me to nomo, oi Epiqewrhtes Periballontos eishgoyntai thn epibolh prostimwn ws ejhs: Prwton, ston oikeio Nomarxh otan to prostimo den jeperna to poso twn 58.694 eyrw. Deyteron, ston Geniko Grammatea Perifereias gia prostima mexri 146.735 eyrw kai telos, ftanoyn ston Ypoyrgo PEXWDE otan to prostimo yperbainei tis 146.735 eyrw. Ayto sas to lew gia na deite tis diabaqmiseis kai tis eyqynes oi opoies yparxoyn sta diafora klimakia ths Dhmosias Dioikhshs kai ths Topikhs Aytodioikhshs, analoga me to ycos toy prostimoy.

O Ypoyrgos, epishs, tonise oti se periptwsh ypotrophs h mh symmorfwshs me toys periballontikoys oroys se opoiadhpote apo tis epixeirhseis stis opoies ypeblhqhsan ta prostima qa epiblhqei diakoph ergasiwn. Epishs, oloi oi fakeloi twn parabasewn qa apostaloyn stis adeiodotoyses Arxes me tis ejhs entoles: Prwton, na epanejetastoyn oles oi adeies diaqeshs ygrwn apoblhtwn poy exoyn ekdoqei kai deyteron, na teqei sygkekrimeno xroniko orio symmorfwshs twn parabatwn kai se periptwsh mh symmorfwshs toys entos toy xronikoy aytoy orioy na akoloyqhsei to proswrino h kai oristiko kleisimo ths epixeirhshs poy de symmorfwnetai. Apo tis arxes Aygoystoy, oi elegxoi me th morfh deigmatolhcias, bebaia, sthn perioxh toy Aswpoy  epanalambanw gia mia akomh fora- exoyn jeperasei toys 50 kai synexizontai, enw epekteinontai kai se nea shmeia. Kaqe fora poy diapistwnetai parabash, qa akoloyqeitai h idia diadikasia epibolhs prostimwn kai kyrwsewn kai taytoxronhs --otan oloklhrwqei bebaiws h diadikasia-- parapomphs ston Eisaggelea. Qa hqela, epishs, na sas ypenqymisw oti opws exei anakoinwsei o k. Soyflias, to Ypoyrgeio Periballontos Xwrotajias kai Dhmosiwn Ergwn proxwrei ston tetraplasiasmo toy anwtatoy orioy gia ta periballontika prostima, apo 500.000 eyrw poy einai shmera sta 2 ekatommyria eyrw.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

KAKALHS: Pisteyei st` alhqeia h kybernhsh oti ta prostima qa stamathsoyn th molynsh apo tis etaireies, th stigmh poy, pws na to pw, nomimopoioyntai na to kanoyn me Proedriko Diatagma toy 1979 na xrhsimopoioyn ton Aswpo potamo gia na rixnoyn ta lymata toys; Kai mia deyterh erwthsh, an qelete na apanthsete: Poses etaireies einai aytes poy drasthriopoioyntai ekei gyrw sthn perioxh, giati mono se 20 eipate, jerete posos einai o ariqmos aytwn poy rixnoyn ta lymata kai drasthriopoioyntai sthn perioxh toy Aswpoy;

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa oti oi elegxoi synexizontai.

KAKALHS: Mono 20 omws eipate oti einai (den akoygetai)...

ANTWNAROS: Apo ton Aygoysto, opote diapistwqhke h yparjh toy sygkekrimenoy stoixeioy mexri shmera, exoyn entatikopoihqei se poly megalo baqmo oi ereynes. Kai ayto deixnei thn apofasistikothta ths kybernhshs. Se poly mikro xroniko diasthma, exoyme sygkekrimena apotelesmata. Kaneis parabaths den mporei pleon na elpizei oti qa rypainei to periballon atimwrhti.

RABANOS: Qa hqela to sxolio ths kybernhshs sta dhmosieymata dyo teleytaiwn hmerwn toy ``BHMATOS'', sxetika me tis amerikanikes pieseis na kleisei h iranikh trapeza Santers sthn Aqhna. Kai to deytero poy qa hqela na sas rwthsw, ean h ellhnikh kybernhsh yioqetei to epixeirhma ths amerikanikhs pleyras oti h sygkekrimenh trapeza apotelei xrhmatodotiko braxiona ths dieqnoys tromokratias.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio gia to dhmosieyma.

PALAIOLOGOS: Sxetika me thn eidhsh oti egkriqhkan telika, perasan malista apo thn egkrish ths armodias epitrophs ths Boylhs, oi ayjhseis se dikastikoys, ycoys 900 ekatommyriwn eyrw th stigmh poy oi ayjhseis gia toys syntajioyxoys den yperbainoyn kan ta oria toy plhqwrismoy. To qewreite dikaio;

ANTWNAROS: Opws jerete, ayto einai ena qema to opoio dieyqeteitai basei sygkekrimenwn ryqmisewn oi opoies yparxoyn. Den exw na kanw kamia allh topoqethsh peran aytoy.

PALAIOLOGOS: Dhladh, symfwnei. Den einai qema dhladh, kybernhtikhs apofashs; Gia na katalabw.

ANTWNAROS: Topoqethqhka me poly safh tropo.

MPALHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epitrecte moy na sas diabasw mia dhlwsh.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw.

MPALHS: Tis teleytaies hmeres ta isxyrotera mhnymata adiallajias stelnontai apo thn pleyra ths Elladas. Ayth htan mia dhlwsh poy ekane o k. Alabanos xqes, ftanontas apo ta Skopia sth Qessalonikh me aformh tis dhlwseis poy ekane pro dyo hmerwn o Mhtropoliths Qessalonikhs. Qa hqela sas parakalw to sxolio sas.

ANTWNAROS: H qesh ths Elladas, ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs einai gnwsth gia to sygkekrimeno qema. Kai einai gnwstos epishs o sebasmos ton opoio epideiknyei h Ellada sth diapragmateytikh diadikasia h opoia brisketai se ejelijh, sto plaisio toy Organismoy Hnwmenwn Eqnwn. Den exw na kanw kanena allo sxolio. Menw omws kai sth xqesinh dhlwsh thn opoia ekane sxetika me to tajidi toy k. Alabanoy, o k. Roysopoylos se aythn edw thn aiqoysa.

ARMENHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ektimate oti oi xqesines ejelijeis sta synora Kossoboy me ta Skopia an exoyn synexeia, an synexistoyn, einai dynaton na ephreasoyn, fobomaste oti mporei kai na ephreasoyn thn poreia twn Skopiwn sto NATO kai kat` epektash kai to qema ths onomasias ayths ths xwras;

ANTWNAROS: Opws jerete, bgainontas apo th synanthsh poy eixe shmera h k. Mpakogiannh me ton Prwqypoyrgo, stis 9:00, topoqethqhke panw se ayto to qema. Menw, loipon, se ayth th dhlwsh ths Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sxetika me thn epixeirhsh ths Astynomias sta Zwniana, einai ikanopoihmenh h Astynomia apo ta apotelesmata; Synelhfqhsan oi paranomoi; Qa ekleicei pleon h paranomh drasthriothta apo thn perioxh;

ANTWNAROS: Moy kanete thn idia erwthsh poy kanate xqes kai ston k. Roysopoylo;

GKOYTZANHS: Ma, den ekana thn idia erwthsh. Htan gia to fiasko ths proxqesinhs epixeirhshs h xqesinh moy erwthsh.

ANTWNAROS: Egw den qa symmeristw aytes tis ekfraseis tis opoies xrhsimopoieitai kai oi opoies einai entelws apajiwtikes. Exete to bhma, opoy dhmosiografeite, na diatypwnete ta sxolia sas. Exoyme mia epixeirhsh twn diwktikwn arxwn poy brisketai se ejelijh. Exoyn oloklhrwqei orismena apo ta stadia ths en logw epixeirhshs. Alla stadia synexizontai ayth th stigmh kai alla programmatizontai. Den exw na dwsw perissoteres leptomereies kai oyte prokeitai na kanw kanena sxolio poy afora sthn epixeirhsiakh drasthriothta twn ellhnikwn diwktikwn arxwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Einai stis politikes proqeseis ths kybernhshs na anoijoyn oi trapezikoi logariasmoi katoikwn twn Zwnianwn, prokeimenoy na elegxqoyn;

ANTWNAROS: Opws gnwrizete, ginontai ereynes. Sas eipa oti brisketai mia epixeirhsh se ejelijh. Einai qemata ta opoia den aforoyn th leitoyrgia ths kybernhshs, giati milhsate gia politikh proqesh, einai qemata ta opoia antimetwpizontai sta plaisia ths Dikaiosynhs, opws prepei na antimetwpizontai. Den ypeiserxetai poyqena h kybernhsh. Den exei politikh diastash to en logw qema.

PALAIOLOGOS: Pera apo ta epixeirhsiaka ths Astynomias, gia ta opoia bebaiws eipate oti briskontai se ejelijh, yparxei kai to qema twn politikwn eyqynwn me aformh tis kataggelies kai ta osa akoygontai to teleytaio diasthma apo ta Mesa Enhmerwshs, apo politikoys poy katalogizoyn se politika proswpa eyqynes gia sygkalych kai synenoxh. Kai gia na oloklhrwsw, qa anaferw kati poy to epishmainei enas politikos. Sygnwmh gia to xrono poy sas klebw. Leei: H Astynomia exei mia istoria me ton tropo poy epilegontan oi astyfylakes, aytoi poy qa ginoyn baqmoforoi. Aytes oi epiloges htan proswpikes epiloges toy kaqe topikoy politikoy, poy exei to politiko panw xeri. Sto Reqymno diaxronika enas politikos eixe to panw xeri kai aytos o politikos htan kai Ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs. To ligotero, loipon, qa eprepe na xeiristei ta pragmata.

ANTWNAROS: Perimenw thn erwthsh sas.

PALAIOLOGOS: Aytes oi kataggelies einai toy k. Balyrakh, prwhn Ypoyrgoy Dhmosias Tajhs. Pera apo ton k. Balyrakh, o k. Ebert xqes, zhthse na yparjei ereyna, na diereynhqei h emplokh politikwn proswpwn sxetika me th sygkalych kai thn anoxh. H apanthsh ths kybernhshs poia einai;

ANTWNAROS: Menw stis dhlwseis toy k. Roysopoyloy, o opoios sas eipe oti aporriptei diarrhdhn tyxon tetoies yponoies. Den qewrw, eipe o k. Roysopoylos, oti yparxei boyleyths toy ellhnikoy Koinoboylioy, se opoio komma kai an anhkei, o opoios feretai na kanei ayta ta opoia eipate eseis. Opoios exei sygkekrimenes kataggelies, to lew gia mia akomh fora, den exei para na paei kai na tis kanei, na tis sygkekrimenopoihsei ekei poy prepei na ginontai oles oi kataggelies. Genikoi kai aoristoi isxyrismoi, ean ektojeyontai apo dw kai apo kei, den exoyn kamia bash.

GKOYTZANHS: Ypoqetw oti ayth einai mia politikh qesh arxhs thn opoia ejefrase xqes o k. Roysopoylos kai eseis. Alla, sto epixeirhsiako epipedo qa diereynhqoyn oles oi piqanothtes.

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa, oti sto epixeirhsiako epipedo oi diwktikes arxes kanoyn ekeino to opoio epiballetai na kanoyn.

GKOYTZANHS: Kai oti ayto den shmainei pws aqwwsate ek twn proterwn opoioysdhpote boyleytes h politikoys;

ANTWNAROS: Profanws, den akoysate th dhlwsh thn opoia ekana. Sas parapempw, loipon, se ayth.

KAKALHS: Giati oi diwktikes Arxes aisqanontai thn anagkh na foroyn koykoyles kata th diarkeia twn epixeirhsewn toys; Toys exei meinei h synhqeia;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na apeyqynqeite, gia qemata poy exoyn sxesh me tis leptomereies ths epixeirhshs, sthn Ellhnikh Astynomia.

PARTALIDHS: Se synexeia ths erwthshs poy ekane synadelfos gia to an qa anoijoyn oi trapezikoi logariasmoi twn Zwnianwn. Epeidh h emporia, diakinhsh narkwtikwn ypagetai stis egklhmatikes prajeis poy ereyna h Anejarthth Arxh toy k. Zormpa, lete na epilhfqei h armodia Arxh; Dioti einai fanero oti o xwros aytos exei ena antikeimeno to opoio diwketai apo thn armodia Arxh.

ANTWNAROS: Rwtate emena, ekproswpo ths kybernhshs, gia to ti qa kanei opoiadhpote Anejarthth Arxh; Ayto to leei h lejh: Anejarthth Arxh. H Arxh dra anejarthta. Qa hqela, omws, epeidh ginetai pali syzhthsh kai egine kai apo esas, fantazomai en th rymh toy logoy sas, anafora stoys Zwnianoys, toys anqrwpoys poy zoyn se ena xwrio h se mia perioxh: H ereyna ginetai prokeimenoy na diapistwqei poioi katoikoi mias perioxhs enexontai  an enexontai- se paranomes prajeis. Den enoxopoieitai synolika, syllhbdhn mia oloklhrh perioxh.

PARTALIDHS: Epeidh shmerina dhmosieymata lene oti yparxei kthnotrofos me 2.000.000 eyrw kataqesh. Fysika einai eylogo oti prepei na ereynhqei. Ayth einai h apoch moy.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na topoqethqw se dhmosieymata.

KAKALHS: Mhpws pisteyete oti einai h wra na topoqethqei h kybernhsh kai na jekaqarisei th qesh ths oson afora th DEH; Proeklogika den to kanate, parapempate sto programma sas, to opoio bebaia den yphrje pote gia th deyterh tetraetia, ti qa kanei me th DEH h kybernhsh. Ara, osa kanei o dieyqynwn symboylos twra ths epixeirhshs, einai kai qesh ths kybernhshs profanws. Poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs gia thn tyxh ths DEH; Kai mia deyterh erwthsh: Ti ginetai me ayto to kryfo mnhmonio poy feretai na exei ypogracei h DEH me th germanikh etaireia gia na ths paraxwrhsei to 51% twn qygatrikwn etaireiwn;

ANTWNAROS: Sas einai gnwsto oti exei jekinhsei enas dialogos metajy ths dioikhshs ths DEH kai twn Swmateiwn twn ergazomenwn se ayth thn etaireia...

KAKALHS: Th qesh ths kybernhshs qelw.

ANTWNAROS: ... sxetika me ola ta sobara qemata poy aforoyn sthn epixeirhsh poy sas ypenqymizw, gia mia akomh fora, oti einai mia epixeirhsh eishgmenh sto Xrhmatisthrio. Qewroyme oti endexomenes diafwnies h diaforetikes proseggiseis poy yparxoyn  kai einai fysiko otan ginetai mia syzhthsh na yparxoyn diaforetikes proseggiseis- den dikaiologoyn opoiadhpote antidrash ayths ths morfhs, h opoia yparxei shmera. Kai den antilambanomaste eilikrina giati yparxoyn tetoies kinhtopoihseis, th stigmh poy brisketai se ejelijh xwris na exei diakopei, enas epoikodomhtikos  kata thn apoch mas-- dialogos. Oloi, h DEH, oi ekproswpoi twn ergazomenwn kai bebaiws kai h kybernhsh, apoblepoyn se kati poly aplo: Se mia DEH poy qa einai antagwnistikh, qa leitoyrgei antagwnistika kai synepws qa einai wfelimh gia to koinwniko synolo, oloys toys Ellhnes polites, se ena apeleyqerwmeno periballon, opws ayto dhmioyrgeitai. H kybernhsh parakoloyqei ayto to dialogo kai sthrizei th dioikhsh ths DEH.

KAKALHS: Dhladh, to problhma einai oi kinhtopoihseis twn ergazomenwn sthn epixeirhsh kai oxi an qa parameinei h dioikhsh ston elegxo toy Dhmosioy h qa spasei se eji qygatrikes, opws problepei kai qa doqei se idiwtes; Dhladh, poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs;

ANTWNAROS: Kaneis den epikrinei, apo thn pleyra ths kybernhshs, kinhtopoihseis, diekdikhseis, diamartyries, opws qelete peste to, twn ergazomenwn. Alla, yparxoyn diafores morfes kinhtopoihsewn. Kai ayths ths morfhs tis kinhtopoihseis epekrina egw, molis pro oligoy, apo ayth th qesh. Kai sas eipa oti den katalabainw giati ginetai ayth th stigmh, efoson o dialogos einai se ejelijh.

KAKALHS: Gia to kryfo mnhmonio exete na peite kati;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi. Den sxoliazw dhmosieymata.

RABANOS: Na parameinoyme sto xwro to syndikalistiko. O k. Magginas, meta th synanthsh toy me ton Prwqypoyrgo xqes, eipe oti o dialogos gia to Asfalistiko paramenei anoiktos. Ligo argotera, o Proedros ths GSEE k. Panagopoylos milhse gia eyqy empaigmo kai eipe oti apanthsh pleon qa doqei stis agwnistikes kinhtopoihseis, arxhs genomenhs apo thn 12h Dekembrioy, poy einai kai h apergia. Qa hqela to sxolio ths kybernhshs gia to ean briskomaste se adiejodo sto Asfalistiko ypo aytes tis synqhkes;

ANTWNAROS: O dialogos synexizetai. Alla, qa moy epitrecete na sas diabasw olh th dhlwsh toy k. Maggina.

KAKALHS: Thn jeroyme.

ANTWNAROS: Qa moy epitrecete na sas th diabasw, dioti ayto poy moy eipe o k. Rabanos, asfalws oxi me kakh proqesh, einai ena tmhma mono ths dhlwsews toy k. Maggina. O k. Magginas eipe oti h kybernhsh einai anoixth se protaseis kai qeseis toso apo tis politikes dynameis, oso kai apo toys koinwnikoys etairoys. O dialogos einai mia baqytata dhmokratikh diadikasia. Einai anoiktos. Bebaiws, omws, den einai ypoxrewtikos kai o kaqenas mporei na proserxetai kai na apoxwrei opws kai otan krinei. Kai se peraiterw erwthsh, o k. Magginas apanthse: ``Emeis proxwrame kai qa synexisoyme to dialogo me osoys proserxontai sthn ylopoihsh aytoy poy exei lexqei, dhladh thn anamorfwsh toy asfalistikoy zhthmatos''. Kai rwthqhke o k. Magginas, meta apo ayto, an yparxei orizontas na teleiwsei o dialogos. Kai aphnthse: ``Den yparxei orizontas'', xronikos ennooyse, ``yparxei ejantlhsh twn qematwn''. Kai ton rwthsan, mexri pote; Aphnthse: ``Mexri na ejantlhqoyn ta qemata kai na antallagoyn oles oi apoceis''.

H qesh ths kybernhshs, loipon, einai safhs. Proxwroyme sthn anamorfwsh toy asfalistikoy systhmatos. Ayth thn ypoxrewsh exoyme ws kybernhsh kai emeis antapokrinomaste se ayth thn ypoxrewsh. An qa antapokriqoyn kai oi alloi stis dikes toys ypoxrewseis, ayto afora ekeinoys.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, alla prin apo ayth thn ypoxrewsh h kybernhsh exei kai thn ypoxrewsh na antapokriqei sta nomoqethmena, se ayta poy einai, stis ypoxrewseis poy exei apenanti sto asfalistiko systhma kai ta Tameia poy exoyn nomoqethqei. Ayta, den exei antapokriqei akoma kai ta syndikata thn kathgoroyn gia empaigmo. Ti exete na peite gia ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Exei topoqethqei o k. Roysopoylos me sygkekrimena stoixeia, kaqws kai o k. Alogoskoyfhs me stoixeia poy edwse proxqes, Trith, kata th synedriash sth Boylh. Ta stoixeia ayta deixnoyn akribws th boylhsh kai thn apofasistikothta ths kybernhshs na kanei o,ti einai dynaton, wste na antimetwpistoyn ta problhmata poy yparxoyn sto asfalistiko systhma. Na eqelotyfloyn orismenoi kai na kanoyn oti den yparxoyn problhmata, den ejyphretei me kanena tropo thn prospaqeia, th syllogikh, opws prepei na einai, prospaqeia gia thn antimetwpish toy qematos.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, alla ta xreh ths kybernhshs pros to IKA einai gyrw sta 12,5 disekatommyria eyrw, an qymamai kala. Kai h kybernhsh dinei gyrw sto 1,5.

ANTWNAROS: Exei topoqethqei o k. Alogoskoyfhs. Menw stis dhlwseis toy.

N.PAPADHMHTRIOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela omws se synexeia toy erwthmatos toy k. Rabanoy na pw to ejhs: Meta th synanthsh poy eixe o k. Magginas me ton Prwqypoyrgo, apo opoy kai oi dhlwseis poy mas diabasate molis, symfwna me thn enhmerwsh poy eixame oi dhmosiografoi poy kalycame kai th synanthsh, einai oti poly syntoma qa jekinhsei o deyteros gyros toy dialogoy gia to Asfalistiko. Einai ikanopoihmenh h kybernhsh apo to oti kaqe gyros diarkei, an oxi liges wres, toylaxiston liges meres;

ANTWNAROS: Den einai qema diarkeias, den einai qema xronoy, einai qema poiotikhs kai oysiastikhs proseggishs twn qematwn. Efoson yparxoyn protaseis, efoson yparxoyn idees, efoson proteinontai lyseis, ola ayta qa synypologistoyn, prokeimenoy na breqoyn se oloys toys tomeis, oi kalyteres lyseis. Den blepw to logo, loipon, giati na diaiwnizetai enas kyklos syzhthsewn otan den yparxei antikeimeno.

Sas eyxaristw.


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