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Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-03-28

Greek Government Press Briefings in ASCII Greek Directory - Previous Article - Next Article

From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

ANAPLHRWTHS KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 28 Martioy 2005

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN

JENOY TYPOY APO TON ANAPLHRWTH KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

EYAGGELO ANTWNARO

Xairete kai kalh ebdomada.

Ayrio stis 11 to prwi, qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph ypo thn proedria toy Prwqypoyrgoy k. K. Karamanlh. Qa syzhthqoyn qemata poy aforoyn thn ellhnikh oikonomia. O Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. G. Alogoskoyfhs qa enhmerwsei thn Epitroph gia to programma Staqerothtas kai Anaptyjhs kai en synexeia qa dwsei synenteyjh Typoy.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

KORAH: Allazei rota o Prwqypoyrgos sto qema toy basikoy metoxoy;

ANTWNAROS: Oxi.

KORAH: Poia einai akribws h rota toy, mporeite na mas peite;

ANTWNAROS: Einai h proaspish toy Syntagmatos kai toy eqnikoy symferontos, opws sas exoyme pei epaneilhmmenws tis prohgoymenes hmeres. H kybernhsh diaqetei ta opla, tis dynatothtes kai ta epixeirhmata gia na ferei se peras me epityxia ayth thn apostolh.

KORAH: Synergazeste me megalo dikhgoriko grafeio twn Bryjellwn h kai me alloys dieqnologoys, me kaqhghtes pleon toy Eyrwpaikoy Dikaioy gia na exete oles tis apoceis; Giati, ena sxolio poy akoygetai einai oti mexri stigmhs akoysthkan oi apoceis twn kaqhghtwn Syntagmatikoy Dikaioy kai oxi twn kaqhghtwn toy Eyrwpaikoy Dikaioy.

ANTWNAROS: Sth diaqesh twn yphresiwn ths Politeias, briskontai oi eidikoi poy xreiazontai, wste na symboyleyoyn kaqe fora thn politikh hgesia gia tis dynatothtes xeirismwn poy yparxoyn. H shmerinh kybernhsh kanei xrhsh olwn aytwn twn dynatothtwn poy yparxoyn sth diaqesh ths.

XIWTHS: Exei dhmioyrghqei mia sygxysh gia to poia strathgikh qa akoloyqhsei h kybernhsh, meta thn proeidopoihtikh epistolh poy elabe apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph. O Prwqypoyrgos, stis Bryjelles, dhlwse oti h kybernhsh qa anazhthsei ena shmeio symfwnias, ena koino topo me thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph. Apo thn allh pleyra, diabazw shmera mia synenteyjh toy Ypoyrgoy Eswterikwn k. Paylopoyloy sta ``NEA'' poy leei oti h kybernhsh den dexetai kamia allagh ston ektelestiko nomo. Ti apo ta dyo symbainei;

ANTWNAROS: Prwta ap` ola, den qa hqela na parafrazete, oyte ton Prwqypoyrgo, oyte ton Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn.

XIWTHS: Den ton parafrazw.

ANTWNAROS: O Ypoyrgos leei ayto akribws poy sas eipa kai egw prohgoymenws: Qa proaspisoyme to Syntagma kai to eqniko symferon. Kai ayto, ayth h kybernhsh qa to prajei. Me ton idio tropo eixe topoqethqei, opws gnwrizete kai o Prwqypoyrgos. O Prwqypoyrgos einai ekeinos poy dinei tis kateyqynthries grammes.

XIWTHS: Pws akribws qa epiteyxqei ayto to shmeio symfwnias kai o koinos topos -einai fraseis poy xrhsimopoihse o Prwqypoyrgos, den parafrazw kati- me thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph, otan to Syntagma einai dedomeno oti den mporei na allajei se ayth th xronikh stigmh. Ayto poy mporei na ginei einai allages stoys ektelestikoys nomoys. Ean h kybernhsh ta arneitai, giati, apo o,ti katalabainw, kai eseis lete oti exei dikio o Ypoyrgos Eswterikwn, ara arneitai h kybernhsh allages sto nomo. Pws akribws qa epiteyxqei ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Den eipa tipote apo ola osa eipate molis eseis. Prokeitai gia th dikh sas ermhneia kai exete dikaiwma oloi oi dhmosiografoi na kanete ermhneies. Ekeino to opoio sas lew egw einai oti h kybernhsh ayth qa proaspistei to Syntagma kai to eqniko symferon. Qa apanthsoyme mesa sto xroniko plaisio poy exei teqei sthn epistolh poy mas exei apeyqynqei. Opws antilambaneste, otan ayth h syzhthsh brisketai se ejelijh kai ginetai antallagh epistolwn, epixeirhmatwn kai qesewn, den einai dynaton na prodikazoyme ek twn proterwn kaqe bhma, kaqe kinhsh, kaqe meqodologia poy qa xrhsimopoihsoyme.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, den sas zhtw ayto kai gia na mhn kanoyme ermhneies, h erwthsh moy qa einai eyqeia: H kybernhsh syzhta allages stoys ektelestikoys nomoys, nai h oxi;

ANTWNAROS: Qetete thn erwthsh sas me telesigrafiko tropo.

XIWTHS: Den einai qema telesigrafoy. Einai mia aplh erwthsh.

ANTWNAROS: Sas apantw: To qema den tiqetai, kata th dikh mas antilhch, me ton tropo poy to qetete eseis. Emeis qa paroysiasoyme ws apanthsh thn epixeirhmatologia mas, h opoia pisteyoyme oti exei safeis kai peistikes baseis sthn epistolh poy mas apesteile h Komision. As perimenoyme, loipon.

BLAXOS: Problhmatizetai o Prwqypoyrgos apo to gegonos oti shmera sthn Ellada yparxei ena megalo komma, h Nea Dhmokratia, poy kyberna kai ton topo kai to opoio paroysiazetai na sygkroyetai me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh;

ANTWNAROS: H Nea Dhmokratia, to kat` ejoxhn eyrwpaiko komma ayths ths xwras, me makra istoria sthn eyrwpaikh politikh kai me apta deigmata gia ton eyrwpaiko ths prosanatolismo, den sygkroyetai me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Einai laqos ayto poy lete. Opws gnwrizete, stoys kolpoys ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs polles fores diamorfwnontai diaforetikes apoceis. Syzhtoyntai para polla qemata kai ta krath-melh mporei na exoyn kai diaforetikes apoceis apo thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph. Ayto den shmainei omws oti eperxetai sygkroysh. Opws eipa kai thn perasmenh ebdomada, den prokeitai gia pygmaxiko agwna, opoy qa kriqei poios qa parei ta shmeia h poios qa bgei nok-aoyt. H Eyrwpaikh Enwsh -etsi opws exei ejelixqei apo tis arxes ths dekaetias toy @60, otan jekinhse me eji melh- einai apotelesma zymwsewn, antallaghs apocewn, ekfrashs diaforetikwn qesewn, alla briskontai pantote oi synistamenes. Den exoyme edw qema genikhs sygkroyshs epi pantos episthtoy.

BLAXOS: Einai diaxyth h apoch oti oi symboyloi toy k. Karamanlh den ton prostateysan, den dieblecan ayto poy egine twra kai eftase sto shmeio o Kwstas Karamanlhs, me o,ti shmainei ayto to onoma, na emfanizetai shmera na sygkroyetai me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh.

ANTWNAROS: Etsi emfanizetai to qema apo merida twn MME. O Kwstas Karamanlhs den sygkroyetai me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Qa hqela na sxoliasete th dhlwsh-topoqethsh toy Mikh Qeodwrakh gia to basiko metoxo.

ANTWNAROS: O Mikhs Qeodwrakhs exei mia makra poreia sth sygxronh ellhnikh politikh istoria. H sygkekrimenh dhlwsh toy exei ayqyparkth ajia.

GKOYTZANHS: Sto Syntagma, h yperaspish toy Syntagmatos einai yperanw kai twn koinotikwn kondyliwn;

ANTWNAROS: Exw apanthsei ep` aytoy para polles fores. Pisteyw oti den exei ginei safes ayto poy exw pei kai egw kai o k. Roysopoylos, alla kai oloi osoi kata kairoys exoyme erwthqei. Giati qetete diazeyktika to erwthma; Den mporoyn kai ta dyo na pane xeri-xeri;

GKOYTZANHS: To leei, shmera, o Ypoyrgos Eswterikwn sth synenteyjh toy.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na diabasete akribws ti leei o Ypoyrgos Eswterikwn sthn teleytaia apanthsh poy exei dwsei sth sygkekrimenh synenteyjh kai na mhn apomonwnete mia frash.

GALIATSATOS: Ti leei o Ypoyrgos Eswterikwn, k. Ekproswpe; H erwthsh einai, ean h kybernhsh exei politikh boylhsh, yperaspizontas to Syntagma, na xasei kai kapoia xrhmata kai h apanthsh toy einai oti to Syntagma einai yperanw xrhmatwn. Ti diaforetiko leei; Mporeite na mas peite ean h kybernhsh symfwnei me thn topoqethsh toy k. Paylopoyloy, kat` arxas;

ANTWNAROS: Symfwnw me thn topoqethsh toy k. Paylopoyloy. Epeidh, omws, epilektika paroysiazete ayto poy leei o k. Paylopoylos sth dikh sas efhmerida, o ypoyrgos, kleinontas leei: ``Qelw na sas pw pantws pws oi swstes kybernhseis -kai prosqetw egw oti ayth einai mia swsth kybernhsh- katafernoyn kai to Syntagma na yperaspizontai kai xrhmata na mhn xanoyn''. Ayto akribws leei o k. Paylopoylos.

GALIATSATOS: Mporeite na mas diabasete kai ti leei prohgoymenws;

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws, alla exei shmasia to shmeio poy katalhgei. Einai enas oloklhros syllogismos. Kai en pash periptwsei, ayto me to opoio kleinei th synenteyjh toy o k. Paylopoylos, exei shmasia.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, sto diasthma poy qa yparxei ayth h antallagh apocewn kai epistolwn me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, toso gia to Syntagma oso kai gia ton ektelestiko nomo kai endexomenws krathsei se makros, dhladh poly peran toy Ioynioy, qa anasteilei thn efarmogh toy dikoy ths ektelestikoy nomoy h kybernhsh; Qa epimhkynei to diasthma anastolhs efarmoghs toy nomoy aytoy kai poso;

ANTWNAROS: Opws gnwrizete, den apantw se ypoqetika erwthmata.

PALAIOLOGOS: Einai ypoqetiko to erwthma to oti ean anastalei o ektelestikos nomos ths kybernhshs; H efarmogh toy jekina apo tis 14 Ioynioy. Kai prosqetw pws ean synexizontai, poy qa synexizontai oi diaboyleyseis kai antallages apocewn me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, den einai fysiologiko h kybernhsh na protiqetai na ton anasteilei;

ANTWNAROS: Giati katalhgete monos sas se symperasmata;

PALAIOLOGOS: Den einai ayqaireta, omws.

ANTWNAROS: Efoson pisteyete pws exete hdh tis apanthseis, giati me rwtate;

PALAIOLOGOS: Giati oi apanthseis poy exete dwsei h poy moy dwsate twra, den einai safeis. Moy lete oti einai ypoqetiko to erwthma, wstoso einai yparkto.

ANTWNAROS: Einai ypoqetiko to erwthma sas.

TSIODRAS: Qa hqela na gnwrizw an h ellhnikh kybernhsh einai diateqeimenh, se periptwsh poy oi diaboyleyseis me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh den katalhjoyn kapoy, na ftasei sto Eyrwpaiko Dikasthrio, prokeimenoy na yperaspistei to Syntagma kai toys ektelestikoys nomoys.

ANTWNAROS: Biastikes erwthseis moy qetete.

TSIODRAS: Ma, otan jekina mia diadikasia, opws einai ayth ths antallaghs epistolwn kai perimeneis mia aitiologhmenh gnwmh, fantazomai oti exeis mprosta soy ws kybernhsh kai to ti qa kaneis an ola ayta den eyodwqoyn. Etsi den einai;

ANTWNAROS: Exete thn entypwsh oti kata th diarkeia mias antallaghs apocewn, mias diapragmateyshs, h kybernhsh qa prepei na anakoinwsei apo twra gia to ti qa kanei se enan, dyo, treis h eji mhnes;

TSIODRAS: Den lew an qa paei kat` anagkh. Lew an sthn optikh ths einai kai to Eyrwpaiko Dikasthrio.

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa.

PAPADOPOYLOS: O k. Paylopoylos poy ekane dhlwseis sto SKAI to prwi, eipe oti qa dwsoyme maxh gia na yperaspistoyme ayto to qema, mexri teloys. Ayto to ``mexri teloys'' den to eklambanete ws proqesh na ftasoyme mexri kai to Eyrwpaiko Dikasthrio;

ANTWNAROS: Den gnwrizw tis dhlwseis toy k. Paylopoyloy stis opoies anafereste. Rwthqhka prohgoymenws gia sygkekrimenh dhlwsh toy k. Paylopoyloy, thn opoia kai exw mprosta moy kai apo thn opoia molis anegnwsa ena apospasma.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Mhpws qelete na diabasw oloklhrh thn erwthsh kai thn apanthsh, giati einai safestath.

ANTWNAROS: Gia poio qema;

PAPADOPOYLOS: ``Me rwtate an qa prepei na qeseis sth zygaria to na yperaspisteis to Syntagma h na xaseis xrhmata. Me sygxwreite para poly, alla apo enan politiko kai malista ton Prokoph Paylopoylo, h monh apanthsh poy mporei na sas doqei einai oti to Syntagma einai yperanw olwn''.

ANTWNAROS: Ti leei parakatw; Pws katalhgei h apanthsh;

PAPADOPOYLOS: ``@ kai malista yperanw xrhmatwn. Qelw na sas pw pantws pws oi swstes kybernhseis katafernoyn kai to Syntagma na yperaspizontai kai ta xrhmata na mh xanoyn''.

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa prohgoymenws. Emeis pisteyoyme oti exoyme ayth thn ikanothta.

SARANTAKOS: Prin apo ligo, apantwntas se allh erwthsh, eipate oti h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh einai enas Organismos poy ginontai zymwseis kai brisketai mia koinh synistamenh. Fantazomai oti gia na breqei mia koinh synistamenh, prepei na yparxoyn ypoxwrhseis apo tis pleyres poy syzhtoyn. To erwthma moy einai, loipon, poies ypoxwrhseis diatiqetai na kanei h kybernhsh, prokeimenoy na breqei pragmati ayth h koinh synistamenh. Fantazomai, gia na oloklhrwsw, oti koinh synistamenh den brisketai, otan kai oi dyo pleyres einai anypoxwrhtes.

ANTWNAROS: H Ellada brisketai se syzhthsh me thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph gia to sygkekrimeno qema. Oso ejelissetai ayth h syzhthsh, den prokeitai se kamia periptwsh, ws Ekproswpos ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs, na anaferqw se qemata poy exoyn sxesh me th meqodologia h th strathgikh poy qa akoloyqhsei h kybernhsh.

GALIATSATOS: H meqodologia ayth einai safhs, giati o k. Paylopoylos oydepote thn ekryce kai sth synenteyjh poy dinei shmera sta ``NEA''. O k. Paylopoylos einai safhs sta epixeirhmata toy. Leei oti emeis me to nomo poy eisagoyme, den eisagoyme mia epipleon kyrwsh, opws mas kathgorei h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph, alla qespizoyme akoma ena asymbibasto. Ayth h epixeirhmatologia toy k. Paylopoyloy, h opoia fantazomai oti einai kai epixeirhmatologia ths kybernhshs kai me thn opoia qa pate na peisete thn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph, einai h safhs grammh ths kybernhshs gia to epomeno diasthma kai gia to pws qa apanthsei sthn epistolh. @H qa apanthsei h kybernhsh diaforetika apo ton k. Paylopoylo;

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na gnwstopoihsw ek twn proterwn to periexomeno ths epistolhs poy qa aposteiloyme sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, opws exoyme ypoxrewsh, entos 15 hmerwn apo thn paralabh ths.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o Prwqypoyrgos, epi ena kai pleon xrono poy einai kybernhsh h Nea Dhmokratia, katanalwnei dynameis gia na diorqwsei laqh poy kanoyn ypoyrgoi h melh toy epiteleioy toy. Qa hqela na moy peite ean pragmatika o k. Karamanlhs aisqanetai oti kapoioi oi opoioi exoyn to kaqhkon na to prostateyoyn, den to prattoyn.

ANTWNAROS: Den antilambanomai ti qelete na peite. O Prwqypoyrgos einai o syntonisths toy kybernhtikoy ergoy. S` ayth thn apostolh o Prwqypoyrgos @den xreiazetai na to anaferw- antapokrinetai me aristo tropo.

BLAXOS: Den einai omws mesa sta kaqhkonta toy Prwqypoyrgoy na diorqwnei laqh poy kanoyn oi ypoyrgoi h oi symboyloi toy. Dioti, einai basiko qema to qema poy syzhtame twra @peri toy nomoy gia to basiko metoxo- oti kapoioi den symboyleysan h den eipan thn pragmatikothta ston Prwqypoyrgo. Den qelw na anaferqw se palaiotera qemata, opws einai to qema toy LAFKA h h ypoqesh toy Sinoyk. Einai profanes oti gia to qema toy basikoy metoxoy, kapoioi den eipan olh thn alhqeia ston Prwqypoyrgo kai ton odhghsan mexris aytoy toy shmeioy, etsi wste na katanalwnei o k. Karamanlhs dynameis, xrono, se gnwrimies kai epafes gia na diorqwsei laqh twn symboylwn toy.

ANTWNAROS: H katapolemhsh ths diaplokhs kai h diasfalish ths diafaneias sth xwra mas einai kentrikh epilogh toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ths kybernhshs. Menoyme ametakinhtoi se ayto.

BLAXOS: Dhladh, afhnete ypainigmo oti kapoioi symboyleysan laqos ton k. Karamanlh;

ANTWNAROS: Einai diko sas ayqaireto symperasma oti exoyn doqei laqos symboyles.

BLAXOS: Ma, ek twn pragmatwn fainetai ayto.

ANTWNAROS: Epanalambanw: Ayth einai h dikh sas ayqaireth ektimhsh. Exete bhma kai mporeite na to xrhsimopoieite, basei toy dikaiwmatos poy sas dinei h dhmosiografikh sas idiothta, gia na proballete tis apoceis sas.

MPOTSARAKOS: O nomos, opws exei chfistei, prepei na efarmostei ton Ioynio. Yparxei, omws, mia metabatikh periodos gia toys epixeirhmaties. An yparjei anastolh toy nomoy, allazei kai h metabatikh periodos. Yparxei, epomenws, kai ena qema gia toys paragontes ths agoras, apo thn efarmogh h mh toy nomoy aytoy apo ton Ioynio. Prepei oi paragontes ths agoras na gnwrizoyn an qa efarmostei h an qa isxysei kai to kata poso qa mporoyn na prosarmostoyn, exontas sth diaqesh toys ena megalytero xroniko diasthma.

ANTWNAROS: O nomos dhmosieyqhke sygkekrimenh hmeromhnia sthn Efhmerida ths Kybernhsews. Exei arxisei na ``trexei'' ayto poy eseis apokalesate proqesmia, dhladh h metabatikh periodos, h opoia lhgei stis 14 Ioynioy. Ep` aytoy den exw na prosqesw tipote allo.

KORAH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, lete synexws oti ftaime emeis oi dhmosiografoi poy grafoyme gia toys kakoys symboyloys toy Prwqypoyrgoy. H prwth parathrhsh ep` aytoy einai oti to sxolio gia ``kakoys symboyloys toy Prwqypoyrgoy'' egine apo koinotiko ajiwmatoyxo stis Bryjelles. An qelete na mh to sxoliasoyme ayto, afoy einai kai anwnymh phgh. As sxoliasoyme, omws, shmerino dhmosieyma toy symboyloy Epikoinwniakhs Strathgikhs toy Prwqypoyrgoy, k. Giannh Loylh, sthn ``APOGEYMATINH'', opoy leei akribws to idio pragma: ``Kapoioi symboyloi paraplanhsan ton Prwqypoyrgo''. Ti lete, loipon, gi` ayth thn parathrhsh apo ena diko sas anqrwpo;

ANTWNAROS: O k. Loylhs einai anejarthtos symboylos Epikoinwnias. Den einai melos ths kybernhtikhs omadas Epikoinwnias. Synepws, den exw na kanw kanena sxolio.

GKOYTZANHS: Einai anejarthtos symboylos Epikoinwnias toy Prwqypoyrgoy;

ANTWNAROS: Den eipa ayto. Eipa oti einai anejarthtos symboylos Epikoinwnias. Den einai toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

GKOYTZANHS: Parexei tis yphresies toy ston Prwqypoyrgo;

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa oti den anhkei sthn epikoinwniakh omada ths kybernhshs. Den exw na prosqesw tipote allo.

BLAXOS: Ayto poy lete dinei megalyterh ajia s` ayto poy leei o k. Loylhs. Lete dhladh oti o k. Loylhs anhkei sthn proswpikh omada Epikoinwnias toy Prwqypoyrgoy, ara metaferei ena allo klima.

ANTWNAROS: Epanalambanw: Den eipa ayto. Sas parakalw, mh moy apodidete logia poy den eipa. Opoiosdhpote epikoinwniologos, opoiosdhpote Ellhnas poliths, exei to dikaiwma, efoson oi efhmerides ton krinoyn ajio gia mia synenteyjh, na ekferei thn apoch toy. Teleia kai payla.

XIWTHS: Menw sto arqro toy k. Loylh. Eseis merikes fores, kai shmera to kanete, lete oti kapoies apo tis ermhneies poy ginontai den einai oi swstes. Se o,ti afora thn ermhneia poy ekfrazei o k. Loylhs, h kybernhsh thn dexetai h thn aporriptei;

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa ligo prin ston k. Blaxo, legontas oti h apoch peri kakwn symboylwn h kakwn symboylwn poy exoyn doqei pros ton Prwqypoyrgo einai ayqaireth.

PALAIOLOGOS: Sxetika me thn epistolh poy einai na steilei h kybernhsh sthn Eyrwpaikh Epitroph, poios telika qa thn syntajei; Poios dhladh qa diaxeiristei telika thn ypoqesh ths apanthshs pros thn Komision gia to qema toy Basikoy Metoxoy; Qa einai enas h perissoteroi toy enos;

ANTWNAROS: Qa deite otan erqei h wra.

PALAIOLOGOS: Den argei. Se liges meres einai.

ANTWNAROS: Pros ti loipon h anypomonhsia;

IWANNOY: Parakoloyqhsate xqes th synenteyjh toy k. Babylh; Pws sas fanhke kai an ap` osa eipe h kybernhsh kineitai pros mia kateyqynsh h exei dwsei kapoies entoles gia na ginoyn ereynes.

ANTWNAROS: Gia na sas lysw thn aporia, sas lew oti den thn parakoloyqhsa, dioti briskomoyn se xwro poy den mporoysa na thn parakoloyqhsw. Etsi lynw ayth thn proswpikh aporia sas.

IWANNOY: Epi ths oysias qa jerete apo ayta poy diabasate, pws sas fanhkan ayta poy eipe;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh den exei na kanei kanena apolytws sxolio.

PALAIOLOGOS: Oyte gia to gegonos oti paramenei akomh asyllhptos o k. Babylhs;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh den exei na kanei kanena apolytws sxolio.

PALAIOLOGOS: H ypoqesh toy Babylh, poy einai kai makra kai ploysia, den sxetizetai kai me kapoia proswpa prohgoymenwn kybernhsewn;

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa. Den exw na prosqesw tipote allo.

GKOYTZANHS: O k. Babylhs htan praktoras ths EYP;

IWANNOY: Qa ta cajete ayta poy eipe o k. Babylhs; An dhladh htan praktoras ths EYP exei amesh sxesh me thn kybernhsh kai einai qema diko sas.

GKOYTZANHS: Mhpws einai akoma;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw allh erwthsh.

GKOYTZANHS: Rwtame an einai akomh praktoras ths EYP kai an htan sto parelqon.

ANTWNAROS: Ayta exoyn apanthqei se prohgoymena briefing. Parakalw na anatrejete kai qa breite tis apanthseis.

PALAIOLOGOS: To qema toy k. Aggelakoy den afora thn kybernhsh; Den einai o Dieyqynths ths Astynomias; Den ton emplekei o k. Babylhs sthn istoria;

ANTWNAROS: Fantazomai oti qa exete diabasei th sxetikh anakoinwsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Egw den perimenw mono thn anakoinwsh toy k. Aggelakoy alla kai thn epishmh stash ths kybernhshs gi` ayto to qema.

ANTWNAROS: Se poio qema;

PALAIOLOGOS: Sto qema ths emplokhs enos anwtatoy ajiwmatoyxoy, oxi kybernhtikoy, alla ths Astynomias sthn ypoqesh Babylh.

ANTWNAROS: Parapempw sth dhlwsh toy Arxhgoy ths Ellhnikhs Astynomias k. Aggelakoy.

GKOYTZANHS: Ara h kybernhsh kalyptei ton k. Aggelako sthn apanthsh poy dinei.

ANTWNAROS: Sas parapempw sth dhlwsh toy.

GKOYTZANHS: Thn apodexetai loipon.

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa.

IWANNOY: Sas fanhke ajiopistos mesa ap` osa eipe o k. Babylhs;

ANTWNAROS: Sas eipa oti den parakoloyqhsa th synenteyjh.

IWANNOY: Ap` osa diabasate.

ANTWNAROS: Alla eipwqhkan kai alla grafthkan, ap` oti akoysa.

IWANNOY: Se poio qema; Jerete na mas peite;

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na prosqesw tipote allo.

GKOYTZANHS: Katalabainete oti edw yparxei ena qema. Kapoios poy katazhteitai kathgorei ton Arxhgo ths Ellhnikhs Astynomias@

ANTWNAROS: Den tiqetai kanena qema gia ton Arxhgo ths Ellhnikhs Astynomias.

GKOYTZANHS: Periorizetai apla na bgalei mia diaceysh.

ANTWNAROS: Me th dhlwsh toy Arxhgoy ths Ellhnikhs Astynomias ekleise to qema. Den exw na pw tipote allo ep` aytoy.

MPOYATAR: Gia to qema ths eqnikhs apostolhs sto opoio anaferqhke o k. Babylhs sth synenteyjh, ti exei na pei h kybernhsh gia mia endexomenh symmetoxh kapoiwn kratikwn yphresiwn se mia apostolh sthrijhs toy k. Eirhnaioy.

ANTWNAROS: Den exw na kanw kanena sxolio sta osa feretai na eipe o k. Babylhs.

KAKALHS: H ayrianh synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs qa shmanei to telos ths legomenhs hpias prosarmoghs kai qa entatikopoihqoyn oi forologikes epidromes poy allote h kybernhsh kathggeile me epibolh emmeswn forwn kai perikopes koinwnikwn dapanwn;

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh den sxediazei kamia forologikh epidromh. H kybernhsh kaleitai na dwsei lysh sto bary timhma poy afhse pisw ths h anepitrepth dhmioyrgikh logistikh toy PASOK. Prokeimenoy na periorisoyme to elleimma poy exei ftasei sto 6,1% prepei na kinhqoyme se dyo kateyqynseis oi opoies einai: Prwton na meiwsoyme th spatalh sto dhmosio tomea xwris na ephreastoyn arnhtika oi prosferomenes yphresies kai deyteron na ayjhsoyme ta esoda toy dhmosioy. H kateyqynthria grammh poy akoloyqei h kybernhsh paramenei analloiwth. Einai meqodos ths hpias prosarmoghs kai h aysthrh efarmogh toy proypologismoy xwris parekkliseis kai xwris metakylish kata to dynaton twn barwn stoys Ellhnes polites. Eidika ayth thn krisimh dietia qa baloyme tis baseis wste na beltiwqei to biotiko epipedo twn sympolitwn mas kai kyriws twn oikonomika asqenesterwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Kai oloi aytoi oi foroi poy qa anakoinwsei h kybernhsh ti einai; Mono kefaliko foro den exei balei.

ANTWNAROS: Exete to dikaiwma na xrhsimopoieite xarakthrismoys poy eseis prokrinete kai as mhn antapokrinontai sthn pragmatikothta.

GKOYTZANHS: Epimenei h kybernhsh, para ta metra poy qa anakoinwsei ayrio @ meqayrio oti ejakoloyqei na isxyei h hpia prosarmogh; Eirhsqw en parodw sas to eixame pei oti eixe dikio o k. Doykas.

ANTWNAROS: Molis sas to eipa. Opws qa exete katalabei stoys oktw @ ennia mhnes poy briskomai s` ayth th qesh, ena apo ta pragmata poy apexqanomai, einai na epanalambanomai xwris logo. Isws na mhn einai xarakthristiko gia th symperifora Kybernhtikoy Ekproswpoy, alla einai apo ta pragmata poy pragmatika den moy aresei, na lew dhladh synexeia ta idia kai ta idia. Ta eipa prin apo ligo kai ejakoloyqoyn na isxyoyn. Ayto qa to deite kai sthn prajh.

TSIODRAS: Qa hqela na moy peite an diakrinete kapoia antifash anamesa se ayto poy elege proeklogika o k. Karamanlhs, oti den qa epiblhqoyn epipleon foroi kai s` ayto poy eipe stis Bryjeles prin apo merikes meres oti h kybernhsh blepei ws deytero tropo antimetwpishs twn elleimmatwn, th dieyrynsh ths forologikhs bashs.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai oyte na ermhneysw, oyte na prosqesw tipote se osa eipe o Prwqypoyrgos thn perasmenh ebdomada stis Bryjeles. Ekeino poy exei shmasia gia mas, prwtarxikos mas stoxos einai oi shmerines qysies na mh xaqoyn, na mhn perasoyn anekmetalleytes gia to koinwniko synolo opws egine polles fores sto parelqon.

TSIODRAS: Epimenw, an isxyei h proeklogikh desmeysh. Pws krinete twra thn proeklogikh desmeysh oti den qa epiblhqoyn epipleon foroi gi` ayto poy eipe o k. Karamanlhs kai deyteron moy kanei entypwsh oti gia prwth fora milate gia qysies, kati to opoio mexri shmera toylaxiston oyte proeklogika, oyte kata th diarkeia ths dekatriamhnhs diakybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias, exei eipwqei.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na diabazete prosektika toys logoys poy ekfwnoyntai kata kairoys gia na diapistwsete oti ayta poy sas lew den periexoyn tipota kainoyrio.

TSIODRAS: Nomizw oti diabazw arketa prosektika toys logoys toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai qa mporoysa na sas ferw ayrio th sygkekrimenh desmeysh poy leei oti den prokeitai na epiblhqoyn epipleon foroi. Ara loipon nomizw oti mallon qa prepei na anazhthqoyn ta kainoyria metra s` ayta poy eipe xqes o Prwqypoyrgos peri allaghs rotas para sth synepeia proeklogikwn logwn.

ANTWNAROS: Ayrio qa exete thn eykairia na ypobalete oles aytes tis erwthseis ston k. Alogoskoyfh. Den exw na prosqesw tipote allo.

XIWTHS: Oxi mono proeklogika alla kai meteklogika o Prwqypoyrgos dhlwse kai anaferomai xarakthristika sth synenteyjh poy edwse sth DEQ, oti to baros ths dhmosionomikhs ejygianshs den qa epibarynei toys polites kai idiaitera ta xamhla strwmata. Ayth h desmeysh toy Prwqypoyrgoy isxyei akomh h exei anaireqei;

ANTWNAROS: Gyriste merikes fraseis pisw kai qa deite ti eipa.

XONDROS: Ayto to kata to dynaton den yphrxe se kamia prohgoymenh omilia. Htan jekaqarh dhlwsh oti qa yparjei mia dhmosionomikh ejygiansh xwris na epibarynqoyn oi polites. Twra mpainei kai kata to dynaton. To erwthma einai ayto to kata to dynaton poso kostizei;

ANTWNAROS: Qa sas parapemcw amesws meta se sygkekrimenh omilia toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

XONDROS: Prwth fora akoysthke sthn Kentrikh Epitroph ths Neas Dhmokratias. Ektote epanalambanete. Prin apo thn Kentrikh Epitroph ths Neas Dhmokratias den yphrxe ayto to ``kata to dynaton''.

KORAH: Ean moy epitrepete na parembw, yphrxe kai sth synenteyjh toy Prwqypoyrgoy sthn Enwsh Antapokritwn Jenoy Typoy.

ANTWNAROS: Akribws.

XONDROS: Ayto den deixnei oti yparxei mia poiotikh strofh; Ayto einai to erwthma moy.

ANTWNAROS: Tis erwthseis poy aforoyn sthn oikonomia, parakalw na tis qesete ayrio ston k. Alogoskoyfh.

BLAXOS: Na ikanopoihsw mia periergeia moy;

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw.

BLAXOS: Apo periergeia rwtw perissotero, para apo dhmosiografiko endiaferon: Poios sas eipe na erqete edw kai na apodokimasete ton k. Doyka, otan mas eixe proanaggeilei aytes tis forologikes epibarynseis, enw 24 wres argotera o Prwqypoyrgos to epibebaiwse;

ANTWNAROS: Eipa se aythn edw thn aiqoysa, otan rwthqhka, oti thn oikonomikh politikh thn paroysiazei ayqentika kai me eyqynh o Ypoyrgos Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn k. Alogoskoyfhs.

TSIODRAS: Fanhke pws ta eixe dei kai o k. Doykas, sygnwmh.

BLAXOS: Ayto poy eipate den einai apodokimasia;

ANTWNAROS: H lejh ``apodokimasia'' einai ekfora krishs, thn opoia exete dikaiwma, ws dhmosiografos, na thn kanete. Alla mh moy thn apodidete emena.

BLAXOS: Kai eseis ws prwhn dhmosiografos gnwrizete poly kala oti mia lejh sas mporei na ermhneytei me ayto ton tropo. Ara, th xrhsimopoihsate epithdes. Einai safes ayto.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na diabasete ekeinh th dhlwsh moy epakribws. Den apodokimasa kanenan.

PAPADOPOYLOS: To ``kata to dynaton'' to eixe pei kai o Prwqypoyrgos, den to lete eseis prwth fora. Wstoso, prin apo ligo eipate ``prwtarxikos mas stoxos oi shmerines qysies''. Th lejh ``qysia'' prwth fora th xrhsimopoieite edw. Ti ennoeite me ayto;

ANTWNAROS: Oloi oi Ellhnes symballoyn me to diko toys tropo sthn anorqwsh ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, sthn anasyntajh twn dhmosiwn oikonomikwn, ta opoia to PASOK afhse pisw toy, se poly asxhmh katastash. Exw milhsei kai sto parelqon gia adeia tameia. To lew, epeidh blepw oti yparxei kapoia ekplhjh sthn aiqoysa, les kai leme kati kainoyrgio. H ayjhsh twn elleimmatwn kai toy xreoys den einai kati poy ofeiletai sth diakybernhsh apo th Nea Dhmokratia. Deite toys ariqmoys, pws toys anaprosarmose h Eyrwpaikh Epitroph gia ola ayta ta prohgoymena xronia poy kybernoyse th xwra to PASOK.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Wstoso, h emmesh forologia den einai h pio dikaih morfh forologias kai katanomhs twn barwn.

ANTWNAROS: Den prokeitai na kanw syzhthsh, oson afora sthn efarmogh forologikwn h allwn systhmatwn. Ayta einai qewrhtika qemata, ta opoia mporoyn na ta syzhthsoyn oikonomologoi metajy toys. Mporeite ki eseis na ta syzhthsete kai na ta analysete stis sthles h stis ekpompes sas. H kybernhsh, otan krinei, lambanei apofaseis, eite afora sto Syntagma, eite sth forologia. Ep` aytwn twn metrwn h kybernhsh qa kriqei, apo toys Ellhnes polites, sto telos ths tetraetias.

GKOYTZANHS: Den einai qewrhtikh h syzhthsh. Sas kathgorei kai h antipoliteysh oti, epeidh katerreyse o mhxanismos esodwn, den mporeite na kalycete pia tis anagkes kai olo katafeygete sthn emmesh forologia poy einai h pio adikh morfh katanomhs barwn.

ANTWNAROS: H antipoliteysh kala qa kanei na koitaxtei ston kaqrefth kai na omologhsei ta laqh poy diepraje, wste me dikh ths ypaitiothta, na ftasei h oikonomia edw poy eimaste. H kybernhsh koitietai ston kaqrefth kaqe hmera kai exei to qarros na blepei ton eayto ths. Den exei kanei tipote, gia to opoio qa mporoyse na thn memfqei kapoios.

GALIATSATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, prowres ekloges qa ginoyn;

ANTWNAROS: Apanthse o k. Roysopoylos thn prohgoymenh Pempth. Apanthsa ki egw nwritera thn perasmenh ebdomada. Giati epanalambanete thn erwthsh; Den dinoyn titloys pia aytes oi erwthseis.

GKOYTZANHS: Kai prin apo ena mhna mas legate oti qa thrhqei aparegklita h hpia prosarmogh, alla twra mas ta lete ligo diaforetika.

ANTWNAROS: Bebaiws kai qa thrhqei h hpia prosarmogh.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi aparegklita, omws. Hdh kanate mia mikrh parekklish.

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa, alla den prosejate ayto poy sas eipa. Thn ekfrash ``xwris parekkliseis'' thn epanelaba kai prohgoymenws.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, se sxesh me ta apotelesmata toy elegxoy poy egine sto Patriarxeio Ierosolymwn, shmera qa eixame thn epishmh apanthsh oson afora sto ti elexqh ston elegxo ths Epitrophs twn empeirognwmonwn. Kat` arxas, egine aytos o elegxos kai egine me oles tis kales proypoqeseis;

ANTWNAROS: H Epitroph twn Empeirognwmonwn poy estalh apo to Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn kai h opoia epestrece sthn Ellada, qa ypobalei mia ekqesh sthn politikh hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn. Den exw na prosqesw tipote allo panw se ayto.

PALAIOLOGOS: Rwtw kai me aformh th synenteyjh poy dhmosieyqhke sthn efhmerida ``Kyriakatikh Eleyqerotypia'' toy prwhn oikonomikoy diaxeiristh toy Patriarxeioy Ierosolymwn, o opoios bebaiws epimenei stis kathgories toy oti eixe to apolyto plhrejoysio apo ton Patriarxh Ierosolymwn. Kai rwtw: o elegxos, h ereyna poy egine telika apedwse, egine kat` arxhn me oloys toys typoys, synedrame kai o idios o Patriarxhs Ierosolymwn;

ANTWNAROS: Perimenete na sas pw, se ayth thn aiqoysa, prin syntaxqei kai ypoblhqei h sygkekrimenh ekqesh sta armodia organa, poio qa einai to periexomeno ths;

PALAIOLOGOS: Den sas rwthsa mono gia to periexomeno ths.

ANTWNAROS: Parakalw na perimenete thn ypobolh ths ekqeshs.

POYLIDOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, syxna pykna, otan sas rwtoyme gia diafores ptyxes toy kybernhtikoy ergoy epikaleiste thn 20eth paramonh toy PASOK sthn kybernhsh. Anarwtiemai, meta apo 20 xronia prepei na sas qesoyme to erwthma gia na mhn koyrazomaste ekaterwqen, dhladh, kai na exoyme mia sygkritikh anafora.

ANTWNAROS: Mporeite na qetete, opote qelete, ta erwthmata sas. Einai dikaiwma sas. Opws diathrw ki egw to dikaiwma moy na dinw tis apanthseis poy krinw oti qelw na dwsw kaqe fora. Den mporoyn, omws, na diagrafoyn ta polla xronia ths kakhs diakybernhshs apo to PASOK me mia monokondylia.

GKOYTZANHS: Mexri pote qa ta epikaleisqe ayta;

ANTWNAROS: Oso ta apotelesmata ayths ths kakhs diakybernhshs ejakoloyqoyn na ephreazoyn arnhtika osa exoyn symbei kai symbainoyn sth xwra, den briskw to logo giati na mh ginetai epiklhsh ayths ths kakhs diakybernhshs. H oikonomia eftase edw poy eftase, giati gia para polla xronia to PASOK ekane osa ekane. Exete thn entypwsh oti ayto oi Ellhnes polites den qeloyn na to jeroyn; Den qeloyn na to maqoyn;

GKOYTZANHS: Fysika, ma einai oysiastikh erwthsh kai oi Ellhnes polites qeloyn na jeroyn pote qa qerapeysete eseis ola ayta ta deina, etsi wste na jeroyn ki ekeinoi@

ANTWNAROS: Emeis qa meinoyme pistoi stis desmeyseis mas. Poly syntoma, opws sas eipa, qa beltiwqei to biotiko epipedo twn Ellhnwn. Ayto einai ekeino poy metra. Oi dyskolies asfalws kai qa jeperastoyn.

GKOYTZANHS: To ``poly syntoma'' einai meta th dietia;

ANTWNAROS: Sas apanthsa. Sas eipa oti dianyoyme mia dyskolh dietia. Ayto den einai kati kainoyrgio. To exoyme pei kat` epanalhch kai fantazomai oti antiqeta me ligoys, qa elega, ekproswpoys twn MME oi Ellhnes polites exoyn katalabei oti h anamorfwsh ths ellhnikhs oikonomias den ginetai apo th mia hmera sthn allh.

GKOYTZANHS: Syggnwmh, k. Ekproswpe, alla ayto einai kati to opoio leei h kybernhsh tis teleytaies treis ebdomades. Olh thn proeklogikh periodo kai olo ton prohgoymeno xrono prin apo tis ekloges elege oti gnwrizei para poly kala thn katastash poy analambanei sthn oikonomia kai oti den qa epiblhqoyn@

ANTWNAROS: Qa pw gia mia akomh fora ayta poy, kat` epanalhch, exoyn dhlwsei kai o Prwqypoyrgos kai o k. Alogoskoyfhs kai o k. Roysopoylos kai o ypofainomenos: Kaneis den mporoyse na dianohqei to megeqos ths dhmioyrgikhs logistikhs kai ths kakhs oikonomikhs diaxeirishs poy ekane to PASOK.

GKOYTZANHS: Wraia, giati den lete eyqews oti h kybernhsh h eseis oti epeidh paralabate mia katastash thn opoia den gnwrizate sthn ektash poy einai anagkazeste na allajete politikh kai na gineste asynepeis me tis desmeyseis sas; Peri aytoy einai h syzhthsh.

ANTWNAROS: H kybernhsh qa thrhsei tis desmeyseis ths. Tis ekfraseis poy qa xrhsimopoiw, qa moy epitrecete na tis epilegw egw kai oxi eseis.

KORAH: Symfwna me osa mas eipate gia to basiko metoxo h entypwsh poy dhmioyrghqhke toylaxiston se mena, k. Ekproswpe, einai oti den exete mia sygkekrimenh strathgikh, para to gegonos @h kybernhsh oxi eseis proswpika- oti mesa to argotero stis epomenes deka hmeres prepei na steilei ayth thn apanthtikh epistolh sthn Komision. Se kaqe maxh h genikh logikh einai oti yparxoyn proteraiothtes, ena, dyo, tria. Eseis exete aytes tis proteraiothtes;

ANTWNAROS: Apanthsa dyo h treis fores se prohgoymenes erwthseis.

KORAH: Apanthsate, alla eipate oti ola einai sthn idia eyqeia. Einai kai to symferon kai ta kondylia kai to eqniko symferon kai to Syntagma mas, alla mporei kai na xasoyme kai kondylia gia thn eqnikh mas yperhfaneia.

ANTWNAROS: Ayth einai dikh sas -qa moy epitrecete na pw kai jerete oti den to ennow proswpika- ayqaireth ermhneia. Egw den eipa, oyte ypainixqhka kati tetoio.

KORAH: H opoia basizetai ston Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn@

ANTWNAROS: Anaferate oti egw eipa pws mporei na xaqoyn kai tetoia kondylia. Kati tetoio oyte to eipa, oyte kan to ypainixqhka.

KORAH: Ara, einai proteraiothta ths kybernhshs h mh apwleia koinotikwn kondyliwn;

ANTWNAROS: Proteraiothta ths kybernhshs einai h yperaspish toy Syntagmatos kai h diasfalish toy eqnikoy symferontos. Oso einai se ejelijh h synennohsh, h antallagh apocewn, h diaboyleysh me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh den einai xrhsimo na leei ek twn proterwn mia kybernhsh poia qa einai ta epomena bhmata poy qa akoloyqhsei.

Sas eyxaristw.


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